Kremlin

AFAIK the remaining unknown/untapped reserves within US territories is generally just the shale oil. There's a ton of it there, but it's difficult and expensive to produce. It will get cheaper down the line for sure, but it will NEVER get as cheap as conventional oil. With conventional oil, you fracture, drill, refine. With shale oil, you fracture, strip mine, ship the raw shale oil that cannot be transported cheaply through a pipeline, go through a very expensive and complex process to yield something that resembles crude oil and THEN go through the same refining process. Every step is inherently more expensive than producing conventional oil, and there are additional steps along the way.

The majority of American fossil fuels do NOT come from within the US (unless you mean the continents when you say 'the Americas'). The majority of oil consumed is imported. Of consumed oil in the US, approx 2/3 of it is imported, mostly from Canada, Saudi Arabia, and Mexico, in that order.

GrandMasterKhan

I think the whole point of us drilling our own oil would be to KEEP THE MONEY in the US.

Instead of making other countries rich of our consumption. Lets Make ourselves rich by undercutting them and selling it cheaper to china etc.

Currently it costs truckers $1 a mile for fuel with at best 5mpg. Anyone who thinks high price of gas only hurts consumers at the pump is not seeing the whole picture. The high cost of fuel raises prices of EVERYTHING. The entire basis of our living is being driven up.

What good does it REALLY do to have a fuel efficent Grocery Getter if the Grocery Delievery Truck is the one really driving up the price of food and basics?

Hybrids and 100mpg cars are not the answer.

b00stn

Disclaimer: I do not know alot politics. Would just like to hear from any of you that do pay attention to it.

Something I saw related to this topic this morning on CNN is that congress has already shot down the presidents proposal. Does anyone else feel like nothing is getting done in our government?

I feel like no one in Washington even listens to anyone from the opposite party and America gets shafted since nothing ever gets done. I have no desire to vote for either candidate. They both seem like nut cases and until our current government system gets an overhaul, its just going to be more of the same crap: spend gigantic sums of tax dollars and accomplish nothing.

Anyone else feel like this?

GPMike

YOu know we can do BOTH...drill here and develop other means of energy. These things are not mutually exclusive.


We should be drilling for oil like R. Kelly drills teenage girls.

Kremlin

How are we supposed to undercut foreign oil producers when we do not have enough oil to sustain ourselves? Supposed hypothetically we figure out a way to effectively produce shale oil in large amounts and we have an excess of oil from it, it'll still be more expensive than the oil China could just buy from Saudi Arabia.

Axel6

Krem, you're looking at this from an engineer's view (which I share as a BSME). However, my views also factor in my business experience and perspective. At $130/barrel, the point at which another fossil resource starts to compete with crude becomes ever clearer. If market forces remain constant and oil companies keep reaping the benefits of higher commodity prices, shale oil extraction/refining will start to effectively compete. Let's say oil reaches $200/barrel (don't laugh...it just may), would someone be willing to pay $175/barrel for oil shale??? Hell YEAH!

So you see, your numbers make sense to a certain extent. When you factor in market forces, all of a sudden these "difficult" extractions become more economically feasible. If we can find a way to exploit 800 billion barrels of oil shale, we'd be in business. Literally.

BTW, I meant what I wrote, "Americas" not "US."

NEODYMIUM

^ exactly, just because the profit margin is smaller doesn't mean you don't produce something

Kremlin

OK that makes sense

HOWEVER, if that other guy was correct in saying that shale oil costs $50/barrel to produce, some stupid-math (linear) extrapolation means it'll cost more like $500/barrel for shale oil. Realistically it won't be a linear extrapolation due to market forces, but my point is that the oil produced by shale oil will cost a LOT more. And it will be very difficult to produce it in good quantities. I expect it to cost significantly more per barrel than conventional oil for quite some time, even if oil reaches $200/barrel.

This is where the gov't could get smart -- it's a heck of an economic stimulus to remove foreign dependencies and generate that kind of business internally. Tax cuts on oil produced by shale oil would probably be a good move...

JonBoy

I am all for it, in general.

However, I just returned from Comodoro Rivadavia, Argentina and that place has terrain with similar shrubbery and flora compared to the Alaskan North Slope.

Guess what? Those straight, narrow lines that run for miles that show the layout of the seismic array were made 30 years ago...and still nothing has grown in their place. It's a very rough climate that will require significant work to restore the area to anywhere near its original state. It won't be as simple as just replanting a few shrubs and then walking away. So, no matter what anyone says, drilling in ANWAR will have some serious environmental impacts in localized areas. However, overall, it's really not going to be a big deal.

So, I say go for it. As Robin Williams said, the caribou will have to cope for a while.

Kremlin

You need to have a POSITIVE profit margin I don't expect it to be a matter of making big profit or slightly smaller profit. I expect it to be a matter of economically feasible vs not economically feasible.

I could mine on another planet for oil. It doesn't mean it's economically feasible in a marketplace where a barrel of oil goes for only $130.