b0mbrman

Wow, that is actually one of the best points I've ever heard regarding hybrids and mileage tests

S2K-MONTREAL

Yes and also the 2nd buyer will have to pay for the batteries replacement.

Does anyone know much it costs?

b0mbrman

Well...according to Honda, the battery should last for 10 years under "normal driving conditions" and comes with an 8-year/80,000-mile "limited battery pack warranty" but I can't find many more details on what those limits are - Link

I have no idea what type or how many Ni-MH batteries are in the Civic but the Escape Hybrid uses 250 D-sized batteries. Probably a lot if you buy them from the dealer, but just $1,875 + shipping if you buy them from here

pierceman

when gas hits $3.00 or $4.00 and if they pass the carpool lane alone issue, ask this question again. My neighbot just bought two Prius's at $3000.00 over msrp, and waited 3 mos to get them, compaired to that, the civic is a bargan, but in general no.

Technology needs to catch up to make it cheaper, unfortunatly, we will all be in Hydrogen cars before you can say twothousandfifteen......
MAtt

b0mbrman

Alright. I'm gonna run the numbers. First the constants:

$20,415 Hybrid TMV
-$16,326 LX TMV ($15,348) + alloy wheels ($716) + deck lid spoiler ($259)
------------
$4089 Real world price difference
+$308 Total interest paid on price difference over 60-month term of loan @ 2.9%
------------
$4397 Effective price difference

According to Edmunds.com, the real world, combined mileage for the hybrid is 38 mpg and 28 mpg for the LX.

Now for the variables. There is a $2000 clean-fuel vehicle deduction for new hybrid cars purchased in 2005, so the way this will affect your refund depends on your marginal tax bracket. Also, gas prices are different depending on where you live. Based on that, I put together this spreadsheet that shows how many miles you have to drive before the gas savings make up for the price difference:



Any thoughts?

rai

If gas gets to $10/gal better look out b/c people will be jumping off buildings.

You don't seem to figure gas will ever be less than $2/gal

IMO until gas is more than $5-$6/gal civic hybrid don't make any financial sense.

If you're spending $20K for a civic value is not your main priority

b0mbrman

Oh no. It's just a given that spending $4k extra on a hybrid is worthless if gas costs less than $2

rai

BTW I like the idea of hybrids, I just don't think you're saving any money.

It'd be interesting to see what mileage a non-hybrid gas or diesel would get if it was given the max mileage treatment low weight, thin tires, small efficent engine etc... Didn't the CRX get 50mpg?

b0mbrman

I wonder that too. I remember the hype when the Insight first hit the scene, but I saw through all the smoke and mirrors and realized Honda hadn't done anything exceptionally special: Build an aerodynamic, gutted, 1800-lb. car with no balls, and you'll get great mileage no matter what's powering it...

I'm pretty sure you're at least in the ballpark with the CRX's 50 mpg and I know for sure that the Civic hatches of the early/mid 90s were rated at 42 city/46 highway. And somehow, both of those were a blast to drive...at least compared to every one of today's hybrids short of the $30k Accord

cdelena

Yes, I am willing to bet that with today's technology it would not be all that hard to get a diesel to get better all around mileage. Of course that would take low-sulphur diesel fuel here in the States which is probably a few years off, and of course we can expect improvement in the hybrid technology over time.

I work with a couple of people that commute long distances with one getting the same mileage with a Civic HX as the other does with his Prius. Few people ever get very close to 50 mpg with todays vehicles.

It does make sense to try to save some of the energy expended with the hybrid technology and advanced engine management, but today it is more R&D and a green fad than anything else (note that he Nissan CEO said they have not offered a hybrid because right now it is not an economical choice for either the manufacturer or the consumer). It does show that a segment of American drivers are interested in reducing fuel use, but not that many judging from the numbers of huge (and mostly empty) vehicles on the road.

As fuel prices go up there will be more choices but long term solutions will evolve over time.