JonBoy

Also, psychoazn was arguing that the Primacy HPs have more grip than the RE-050s (or S-02s). That's why I quoted him in the first place...

ZDan

You said:
I'm saying: "Not necessarily!" I only need one example to prove that point.

I've said a few times that ultimately, there will be different compromises in making a LRR tire vs. making a tire for maximum grip. But there are several areas where optimizing for the one is also somewhat optimizing for the other.

A good high-speed performance tire should generally have lowish rolling resistance as a consequence of being designed not to overheat in extreme usage.

I don't disagree that *in general*, tires designed to be LRR are not going to be as grippy as max- or extreme-perf summer tires. Because if you look at LRR tires, most of them are not designed for high performance, the same as most non-LRR tires are not designed for performance.
BUT, there are a bare few LRR tires in the max-performance category that *are* as grippy (at least in the ballpark) vs. other non-LRR max-perf tires.

True, when the tire is soft/pliable enough to fill every nook/cranny in the tire/road interface, that should give more rolling resistance due to hysteresis. But for street use, I don't think this is as big a factor as it is often made out to be. Most super-grippy street tires undergo a kind of "phase change" when they heat up, where they get way WAY softer. Until that point, the rubber acts more like normal tires. A tire that is soft and pliable enough to make a major grip difference in normal driving is likely to come apart sooner when its temperature is elevated. Extreme and Max Perf tires I've used don't seem to have any softer tread at normal street-use operating temps than "normal" tires.

If low deformation is indicative of HIGH rolling resistance, why do we see low-deformation LOW rolling resistance runflat tires? Or did you mean to say that low deformation is indicative of LOW rolling resistance?

OK, I think I know what you *mean* here (unintentional misstatement above about "HIGH rolling resistance"?).

Gotcha (I think!). But still, I think that a compliant tire that can deform without sapping energy can also have low rolling resistance. For performance tires, though, definitely wanna be on the stiff side!

ZDan

It may be worth pointing out that the FR-S LRR tire option is apparently a much much grippier than its non-LRR tire option.

FR-S LRR tire
customer ratings for traction = 7.9/8.6 (wet/dry)

FR-S non-LRR tire
customer ratings for traction = 5.2/6.5 (wet/dry)

psychoazn

They do. The RE050 and S02 are old, OLD compounds.

The real downfall is the tread squirm and the Primacy HP's lack of ability to cope with heat. Surprisingly, they resist chunking rather well, better than Z1SS in back-to-back comparisons.

That being said, would I buy them again? Nope. Too expensive. I'll buy fresh sets off of new FRS/BRZ owners that want to get rid of their oem tires though.

skurge

D&D? what is that?

Bloody Hatch

Congrats on your new purchase. Very sexy car in person. I never bothered comparing this car to the S2000. I always thought of it as a RWD RSX.

skurge

to me it honestly feels like an easier to drive s2k, i actually drove my S the other day and(well for one felt like a giant in it) felt at home, other than the clutch on the S being 100X harder to push. to me the frs(with everything turned off) is just an S that isn't trying to kill me

FurY

But that's the best part about the S

skurge

oh dont get me wrong, i love that about the S, it forces you to be involved, I took the S for a ride the other day, hit a few roundabouts, at the same speed at i take it in the FRS, the S2K just feels a little more planted, even when the rear slides a little. when the S slides, it feels like you still have grip, when the FRS slides, it feels like your back wheels are on ice