JonBoy

VW has pushed back their plans to electrify (purely) and moved to plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) in the meantime. Research over the past ten years show that PHEVs offer virtually all of the benefits (in terms of emissions) of EVs without the cost, range anxiety, etc. They are a far better solution for our existing infrastructure without adding undue costs and complexities.

https://www.carthrottle.com/news/vw-...s-its-ev-plans

TommyDeVito

EV depreciate like mad so only buy used and I’d give anything “new” as in FMC, 18-24 months on the street, from first deliveries, to purchase. I just posted a video where a guy by a launch edition CT. He sold it for a slight profit, like $2k or something, because projections are for 30% depreciation the first year. He then purchased that $70k Caddy EV CUV thing, for like $36k or something. I’m going to sell/trade my 10+ year old Leaf in the next 12 months for a MY2023 that is already at $21k. That’s the top trim, with like 6k on the ODO.

Hybrids don’t depreciate like EV’s do.

sam_spider

Surprised the Macan is on the EV only list as that has to be their biggest seller by a long way, especially in base form.

TheDonEffect

Yeah it was hilarious how people thought the EV event horizon was upon us and VW was the prophet, the fact that it was VW should indicate how half baked the idea was, heck their home country wasn't even on board with it from the get go. I'm sure there social signaling had nothing to do with all the egg on their face due to dieselgate.

SlowTeg

Wow, end of an era. I wonder if they'll ever end up using ICE powerplants for these cars again, we'll see.

On the note of model refreshes.. I have to wonder if OEMs like honda, toyota, etc. go to longer product refresh cycles and smaller iterations between new models. Maybe this is already the norm, I havent been paying too close attention. I'm sure it's not cheap to design a new chassis from top to bottom. As you pointed out Jonboy, you have Tesla with the Model S that's been around forever. I'm sure they've made iterative changes and improvements but not a ground up new design.

bruthaboost

I'm not sure how much potential EV buyers follow battery R&D, or appreciate the pace of improvement, but we're still in the very early phases of the shift to EVs. We're just starting to see 400kwh recharging (of course infrastructure is still a problem). At 450kwh we're close enough to ICE refueling that I doubt people will care. Sodium ion batteries are becoming a reality. They have better temperature and recharge capability. Presently, they don't have Li energy density. Point I'm making are things are still improving at a pace where buying something now will result with you having something whose tech will be woefully outpaced in years resulting in massive depeciation. I appreciate we have to start somewhere, but I like Toyota's approach more.

TommyDeVito

I’ve been following it all and paying attention to Yota’s solid state R&D. My 10 year old EV has lost something like 10-15% of charging capacity. No big deal and I’m going to sell/trade it for a newer one, probably a MY2023 in the next 12 months. Watching pricing and waiting for % rates to drop, at least a point. (F U Fed) The great thing about getting an EV now is just get a 1-2 year old one with low miles and let the idiot that bought it new eat all the depreciation. It’s like buying a BMW/Audi back in the day. I paid $19,700 all in for my current one and in 10 years the maintenance has been nil and I charge it for free off my panels on the roof. I can get a MY2023 with triple the range of mine for $20k. Mine is still worth about $6k so it’s either 10-11k for a new battery pack and fork over $14k for a new(er) one. Pretty obvious choice. This next one should last another 10 years so by then all this will have been figured out.

Expensive EV’s are just plain dumb unless you get one used, after a significant depreciation hit.

zeroptzero

The only reason I would buy a Porsche is because of the lovely engine sound and mechanical awesomeness - gears , shifters, exhaust etc.

I don't want a Porsche that is just the same as a Kia EV with the porsche logo and porsche price tag. No way.

Bullwings

Yup. I've been following solid state battery tech. Quantum Scape (QS) just popped 50% this week after signing a deal with VW. They delivered prototypes last year for in-car testing and have been reporting very positive test results along with better mfg. capabilities to in order to hit EV price parity with ICE and hybrids.

If they can get SSBs going, it solves a good chunk of the problems with current battery tech. Cheaper, lighter, higher energy density, less heat generated, and way faster charging times (5% to ~80% in 5 minutes).

Doesn't fix the lack of driving engagement though...

zeroptzero

VW is just constructing a 2 million sq ft EV battery plant 1 km from my home, I suspect it may have a very early death, by the time it is ready to open they will have new technologies