ralper

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dlq04
[B]Bob & Rob,

dlq04

And all they had to do was look across the pond, note what happened in Great Britian, and learn from their mistakes. But, as you said they were just too arrogant.

When I looked into how the '72 Toyota I had was built, and the extra measures to ensure quality, I was totally impressed. I still recall how weatherproofed the distributor was; plus it had a tight fitting, form fitting, plastic dust cover over the points. That was 30 years ago and I've driven nothing but Japanese products ever since! The sad part is I think the American industry is still asleep as they continue to loss market share but fail to take the proper steps to even keep what they have.

Chazmo

The '70s were a shock to America. When the oil crisis hit in '72 (I think it was '72, as I recall) we were ill-prepared. That single event changed the psyche of the public to look at small, imported cars in a totally new light -- i.e., as desirable rather than laughable. The Japanese quickly figured out how to build forward-looking cars, maybe due to Deming, but almost certainly due to lack of arrogance.

I can only say this. American car makers have had three decades to get the sorry patooties back on track. I am throughly embarassed at the lack of progress, and even downright regressions with respect to gas-guzzling behemoths and essentially poor efficiency. I can't think of a single industry in the US besides the car companies that have gotten such an enormous grace period. And still the arrogance and poor products continue to flow.

That said, the American car business is hardly "American" anymore. Also, there are signs that some segments of the industry get it. I have all but given up hope for American cars, but the embracing of fuel cell nirvana has given me a glimmer of hope.

Also, I really the new Caddy XLR. It's not exactly a ground-breaker in efficiency, but it might put the premier Cadillac brand back in the limelight.

ralper

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chazmo
[B]The '70s were a shock to America.

Chazmo

Agreed on that, Rob. Pardon that earlier rant, I don't know what got into me. Jealousy, mostly... These giant car companies seem to find a way to avoid capitalistic "survival of the fittest" evolution. By all rights, GM and Ford should've gone out of business in the 1980s. These behemoth companies continue to hang on and make their executives fat while far more innovative, vibrant companies get destroyed by a sour stock market. Just my opinion, and probably sour grapes...

I think poison ivy is making me a bit cranky today (thanks for listening)

ralper

Charlie

I don't think you're cranky at all. I think you are right. In any other industry companies that behaved like GM and/or Ford would long be history. Somehow in the auto industry they manage to hang on and continue to make their executives fat. Unfortunately, it is largely at the expense of the consumer.

Where I differ with you is that I have never met a Caddy that I liked. Not one.

Chazmo

My dad had a '68 Coupe DeVille Convertible that was so long it practically burst out of our garage. Despite its massive size, I have really good memories of that car, which is why I think I'm willing to give Caddy some props on the new XLR.

One tidbit: my dad, ever the anal compulsive, covered the entire expanse of the white leather interior in that car with plastic sheeting. For two years, our skin never touched it. Then, a guy came with a check and pocket knife and drove it away.

We've never forgiven my dad for that! Plastic seat covers... Makes me cringe to this day.

VTEXTC

I'm a big fan of classic cars, especially those less renowned than classics by Porsche, Jaguar and BMW to name a few. The Datsuns were always a great choice; practical, sporty and affordable. Rust issues and poor bodies are also something I remember from my childhood. My parents had a 1974 Datsun 120Y coupe with lots of chrome and a 4 spd manual. I don't think they were ever sold in North America though.

Asif

dlq04

I think most American's are rooting for Cadillac to make a comeback. They are making some real strides at shaking the image that their market is all 'blue hairs' or 'pimps'. I'm convinced Bob Lutz is a through-and-through-car-guy and if anyone can make them see the light down at 'the tubes', it's Bob. I was sad to see them pull the plug on Cadillac's racing just when things were coming together. They said they couldn't afford it, but when you look at the other areas they waste money, I still think it was short sighted.

I agree that the Japanese were getting their act a few years before the 'oil crises', which was more like 73/74 as I recall. No doubt they had the right cars at the right time and made inroads that solidified their future.

I can't understand why the American car manufacturers can't grasp they need to make a quality car that a young person and young family can afford, yet be proud to drive. Toyota has replaced the Chevy as America's car.... and everyone just seems to sit around and watch it, while they try to continue to sell out-dated, cheap Malibu's. I agree with the observation that they seem to have wasted the last 30 years to turn things around. Instead they continue to want to point the blame elsewhere.

ralper

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dlq04
[B]
I can't understand why the American car manufacturers can't grasp they need to make a quality car that a young person and young family can afford, yet be proud to drive.