Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

This is completely anecdotal, but I remember when the S550 came out in 2014 (2015 MY), I saw them everywhere almost instantly, as well as all the prior models. I don't see a ton of the new ones, and when I do, it's not a V8 variant. Only on the weekends in the mornings when the enthusiasts are out I may be a few, but generally speaking I don't see alot. I now know 3 people who bought Mach1s and sold them in under two years, great cars, not worth the price. From what I've seen, theyre getting discounted, but I'm sure Ford is going to blame slowing demand and not their obnoxious price hikes and questionable restyling as the culprit because I guarantee you if say... Honda or Toyota made a FR coupe with a V8 for 35k, the markups would be ridiculous.

I recognize that the performance standard has gone up, but look at the majority of dedicated track enthusiasts, they're not buying the highest power thing they could find, they're buying things that run and has parts with enough performance. Because in organized racing, you run in classes, so you don't need a vette if you're just running with Miatas. And that's the problem, people fall in love with track times when 1) they'll never go to the track let alone regularly compete and 2) they're incapable of driving those cars at full speed.

That's the problem with chasing the dragon, at what point then does the Corvette then become an AWD, automatic, hybrid, MR car that's priced similarly to homes that's unrecognizable to other Corvettes... oh we're at that point now. GM just doesn't learn, they constantly chase being the best that they forgot what made them popular to begin with- value, an aspirational vehicle for the working man.

This is anecdotal, but GM failed in generating the interest with their intended consumer. Sure, they're selling, but to folks who buy the most exotic looking car their credit/lifestyle could afford, they're more likely to own a pair of Loubatons than they are Sparco shoes. Every person I know that bought a C8 all sold them already, and the ones that kept them don't know how to drive stick (and are already looking at Porsches).

Meanwhile, Porsche has a waitlist on the GT4RS, people are still upset with Lotus with the slow release of the Emira. The crowd GM was aiming for isn't paying attention to C8s.

GM doesn't get it, naming it a Corvette is actually a detriment, people in that price category don't care as much about value as they are with ownership experience, meaning the driving fun and just the ownership lifestyle. Yeah it may be able to beat my Lambo, but I've got a Lambo, and it looks like this and sounds like this. Yeah your vette alphabet soup may beat my 458 Speciale, but it doesn't have the driving experience the Speciale have.

Because while the standard of performance continues to rise, the perceivable pleasure of driving doesn't once you get to a certain point. Once you hit 60 in the 3s you're so reliant on environmental factors to get any discernible difference, plus the driving behavior is so neutered on street level speeds so that you need the drama of the noise those Euro exotics make to make them exciting just driving around.

That's total BS that they can't engineer a manual transmission into it, they're just choosing not to. A stripped down flat plane C8 with a manual I think would be absolutely awesome. But instead we're getting another hybrid numbers chaser that's priced in a realm where if it's not the obliterating the competition (it's not), why would I want it?

Originally Posted by clutchcargo

I thought Caddy had aced the CT6 with the rare Blackwing motor but I am an oddball and they kept that limited and then there here and gone
I agree that the crrrent sedans have oomph but sedans are out of fashion (I don't ever expect to own an SUV)
The care thing in supercars is always a debate topic
I feel McLaren can move goods because they sell the I win the pissing contest with stuff like the 750S.
To me a would prefer a Revuelto 10 to 1 over an SF90 as it would be an unreal experience to own and drive, but it is marginally slower than an SF90 and gets poo poo yapping about it

Originally Posted by QUIKAG

I agree with some of what you said, but the sales number tell a different story on whether the C8 is a success what whatever market is buying them. Then, those who said they'd never step foot in a Caddy dealer as they prefer the lattes at the Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes dealers are definitely looking more than once at the Z06 and now ZR1. I know a few personally who have bought their first Corvette because just had to have the Z06 and that sweet, sweet flat plane V8.

Sales Results - USA - Corvette

(scroll down to USA)

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/chev...sales-numbers/

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

Imagine if they did a cost not an object and focused on the driver enjoyment solely with the Z06 motor and a manual. Sign me up.

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

I thought I mentioned that I recognize that the C8 is selling well, so from that standpoint it's a success. The issue I'm anecodally presenting is that they failed at capturing the market they intended. Plain and simple, if you make an exotic looking car that happens to be the cheapest one, you will sell enough of them.

I also know of some people who bought their first vette which was the C8, but most of them have already since sold it. I mean I suppose we can say that's pretty much the case with any new car these days, but I see more people holding onto their GT4s than vettes.

But yes, what you said about the Z06 with the flat plane is sorta my point, that sort of engine is what draws people, and not because of the performance because frankly flat plane engines typically suck outside of track conditions since they tend to be peaky. People want the emotion, that sound. So imagine if it came with a manual. I would even go as far as to say if they could sell a better Z06 manual for the money they're going to ask for the ZR1. Imagine if they did a cost not an object and focused on the driver enjoyment solely with the Z06 motor and a manual. Sign me up.

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

I thought I mentioned that I recognize that the C8 is selling well, so from that standpoint it's a success. The issue I'm anecodally presenting is that they failed at capturing the market they intended. Plain and simple, if you make an exotic looking car that happens to be the cheapest one, you will sell enough of them.

I also know of some people who bought their first vette which was the C8, but most of them have already since sold it. I mean I suppose we can say that's pretty much the case with any new car these days, but I see more people holding onto their GT4s than vettes.

But yes, what you said about the Z06 with the flat plane is sorta my point, that sort of engine is what draws people, and not because of the performance because frankly flat plane engines typically suck outside of track conditions since they tend to be peaky. People want the emotion, that sound. So imagine if it came with a manual. I would even go as far as to say if they could sell a better Z06 manual for the money they're going to ask for the ZR1. Imagine if they did a cost not an object and focused on the driver enjoyment solely with the Z06 motor and a manual. Sign me up.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Honestly I was really hoping that GM was going to do something special with the demise of the Camaro, and offer a parting gift of a Z28 with the Vette's Z06 engine mated to a 6 speed manual. Even Car and Driver mused on it. Not sure if GM looked into it, but it (obviously) didn't happen. Huge huge shame.

GM gave up the affordable entry level sports car and seems to have no interest in returning. I never would have thought that Toyota would swoop into that roll, but here we are.