Corvette owners... Looking at a 2009 C6 Z06.
06-05-2013, 06:42 AM
#31
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202mph is top of 5th gear...6th gear is useless.
US$ 38k for an 09' Z06 is a really good deal. US$ 42-48k is more of the norm, provided the car is in good condition...rough examples and high miles will drop price to about US$ 40-43k.
The C6Z is plenty of car for the track. It is however, a driver's car. You are not going to be able to jump on it and get fast laps from the get go - it will take some work to get used to. It has plenty of power and torque all across the board. Respect the car and drive it...hard. When properly driven, you are going to be unmatched on course.
The LS7 has shown some problems with oil starvation and with the valve guides. While it is an uncommon problem, there are so many Z06s are out there, the problem seems to be more common than it actually is, especially since there are plenty of board forums helping advertise any potential issues.
I have had an 06 and an 08. They are both extremely fast on course. My 06 suffered some transmission issues at about 10,000 miles and my 08 suffered from oil starvation and also tranny issues at 5k and 12k respectively. Even with these issues, these cars are tanks and hard to beat. I would not call them "bulletproof", but I would not call them lemons either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfrtEHFtnvE
Here is a video of my 08 on course. It is twitchy but predictable; and fast.
Tires are expensive...yes, but, I have always used the factory runcraps. They are HORRIBLE, but you can buy a used set for around US$ 600-800 for all 4...and that will last you plenty. Even on runcraps, the car is faster than 99% of the cars out there if driven properly.
Brakes are plenty...but switch to Hawks or Pagids and some fluid and you will be unstoppable.
...on 2nd thought, 38k is a horrible price. Give me that guy's number so that I can straighten him up. I have a trailer and can give that car a better home...LOL.
US$ 38k for an 09' Z06 is a really good deal. US$ 42-48k is more of the norm, provided the car is in good condition...rough examples and high miles will drop price to about US$ 40-43k.
The C6Z is plenty of car for the track. It is however, a driver's car. You are not going to be able to jump on it and get fast laps from the get go - it will take some work to get used to. It has plenty of power and torque all across the board. Respect the car and drive it...hard. When properly driven, you are going to be unmatched on course.
The LS7 has shown some problems with oil starvation and with the valve guides. While it is an uncommon problem, there are so many Z06s are out there, the problem seems to be more common than it actually is, especially since there are plenty of board forums helping advertise any potential issues.
I have had an 06 and an 08. They are both extremely fast on course. My 06 suffered some transmission issues at about 10,000 miles and my 08 suffered from oil starvation and also tranny issues at 5k and 12k respectively. Even with these issues, these cars are tanks and hard to beat. I would not call them "bulletproof", but I would not call them lemons either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfrtEHFtnvE
Here is a video of my 08 on course. It is twitchy but predictable; and fast.
Tires are expensive...yes, but, I have always used the factory runcraps. They are HORRIBLE, but you can buy a used set for around US$ 600-800 for all 4...and that will last you plenty. Even on runcraps, the car is faster than 99% of the cars out there if driven properly.
Brakes are plenty...but switch to Hawks or Pagids and some fluid and you will be unstoppable.
...on 2nd thought, 38k is a horrible price. Give me that guy's number so that I can straighten him up. I have a trailer and can give that car a better home...LOL.
06-05-2013, 07:17 AM
#32
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower' timestamp='1370268416' post='22583180
[quote name='TougeS2k' timestamp='1370227673' post='22582474']
Do it. I love me c5z. No torque in a ls-7? LOL
Do it. I love me c5z. No torque in a ls-7? LOL
It's not a dump truck, it's a sports car. All the "work" is taking place at higher rpms. So yeah, it feels docile at low rpms around town. You need to use the upper rpms to enjoy the car. WTF did you think the tach went past 3000 rpms?!? You want instant torque? Drop the hammer at ~4000 rpms. Or, if you are a nearsighted overweight librarian, tell people you weren't impressed the one time you floored in second just off idle.
Did you even realize the speed you were tooling around at in low gears vs. what gear you'd need to keep the motor at tolerable rpms in other vehicles with fewer cylinders and smaller engines? I like BMW's and their straight 6's alot but if that's all you know, you need to get out more.
[/quote]
I don't know about you but I don't drive around town like a maniac at 5,000+ RPM all the time. Most of the time when you are cruising at speed say 30-50 mph you are likely in 5th or 6th gear which puts you at or under 3,000 RPM. Part of the fun of owning a 7.0L V8 is that you should be able to mash the gas at regular cruising speed without having to downshift to blow by a few people when desired. Having to downshift is something people complain about in a no torque 4 banger not a V8 beast. I'd venture to guess that most Z06's are driven more on the street than track and those that are tracked are still street cars. My neighbor that owns a prominent Corvette race shop even mentioned that the LS7 needs to be revved, I was just saying that was surprising not that they are bad cars. I almost pulled the trigger on a C6Z several times.
I don't even own a straight 6 or BMW right now LOL. But I've owned and raced all sorts of cars with all sorts of power plants including I4 NA, I4 supercharged, I4 turbo, V6 NA, V6TT, I6, Flat 6 and Rotary mounted front engine and mid engine in FWD, RWD and AWD configurations. I think I've had plenty of experience with all kinds of cars across the board how about you?
06-05-2013, 08:41 AM
#33
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I don't know about you but I don't drive around town like a maniac at 5,000+ RPM all the time. Most of the time when you are cruising at speed say 30-50 mph you are likely in 5th or 6th gear which puts you at or under 3,000 RPM. Part of the fun of owning a 7.0L V8 is that you should be able to mash the gas at regular cruising speed without having to downshift to blow by a few people when desired. Having to downshift is something people complain about in a no torque 4 banger not a V8 beast. I'd venture to guess that most Z06's are driven more on the street than track and those that are tracked are still street cars. My neighbor that owns a prominent Corvette race shop even mentioned that the LS7 needs to be revved, I was just saying that was surprising not that they are bad cars. I almost pulled the trigger on a C6Z several times.
I don't even own a straight 6 or BMW right now LOL. But I've owned and raced all sorts of cars with all sorts of power plants including I4 NA, I4 supercharged, I4 turbo, V6 NA, V6TT, I6, Flat 6 and Rotary mounted front engine and mid engine in FWD, RWD and AWD configurations. I think I've had plenty of experience with all kinds of cars across the board how about you?
I don't know about you but I don't drive around town like a maniac at 5,000+ RPM all the time. Most of the time when you are cruising at speed say 30-50 mph you are likely in 5th or 6th gear which puts you at or under 3,000 RPM. Part of the fun of owning a 7.0L V8 is that you should be able to mash the gas at regular cruising speed without having to downshift to blow by a few people when desired. Having to downshift is something people complain about in a no torque 4 banger not a V8 beast. I'd venture to guess that most Z06's are driven more on the street than track and those that are tracked are still street cars. My neighbor that owns a prominent Corvette race shop even mentioned that the LS7 needs to be revved, I was just saying that was surprising not that they are bad cars. I almost pulled the trigger on a C6Z several times.
I don't even own a straight 6 or BMW right now LOL. But I've owned and raced all sorts of cars with all sorts of power plants including I4 NA, I4 supercharged, I4 turbo, V6 NA, V6TT, I6, Flat 6 and Rotary mounted front engine and mid engine in FWD, RWD and AWD configurations. I think I've had plenty of experience with all kinds of cars across the board how about you?
Conversely, the Japanese four cylinder cars I've owned demanded higher rpms when driving around town. And more frequent shifting. There's no way I could drive my Celica all the way across town at 1500 rpms - every little hill would require a downshift to get enough torque at the wheels to make it up without stalling. So most people tend to drive their four cylinder cars at higher rpms all the time. A larger V8 makes enough torque you can easily idle around in a highway gear at 30 mph without stalling or chugging. But you're still in 5th gear, so it's not going to accelerate like a bat out of hell that far out of the powerband and in that tall a gear.
Yes, performance V8's need to be revved to make power. Just because it's a V8 doesn't mean it makes all its power at low rpms, and just because it's a 7 liter monster doesn't mean it doesn't like to be revved.
I've owned all kinds of cars, I4's & V6's & V8's, missing out on a straight 6 and a boxer so far. I've owned several with V8's. And in every single one, you need to be in an appropriate gear to get the most acceleration. I realize people who have zero experience with V8's have these ideas that don't necessarily reflect reality, but it's just silly to make statements like "You should be able to just mash the gas and blow by people without downshifting at any speed and any gear." Where does that even come from? If you don't want to be bothered with shifting, get an auto that does it for you.
06-05-2013, 09:56 AM
#34
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower' timestamp='1370445435' post='22588167
...
I don't know about you but I don't drive around town like a maniac at 5,000+ RPM all the time. Most of the time when you are cruising at speed say 30-50 mph you are likely in 5th or 6th gear which puts you at or under 3,000 RPM. Part of the fun of owning a 7.0L V8 is that you should be able to mash the gas at regular cruising speed without having to downshift to blow by a few people when desired. Having to downshift is something people complain about in a no torque 4 banger not a V8 beast. I'd venture to guess that most Z06's are driven more on the street than track and those that are tracked are still street cars. My neighbor that owns a prominent Corvette race shop even mentioned that the LS7 needs to be revved, I was just saying that was surprising not that they are bad cars. I almost pulled the trigger on a C6Z several times.
I don't even own a straight 6 or BMW right now LOL. But I've owned and raced all sorts of cars with all sorts of power plants including I4 NA, I4 supercharged, I4 turbo, V6 NA, V6TT, I6, Flat 6 and Rotary mounted front engine and mid engine in FWD, RWD and AWD configurations. I think I've had plenty of experience with all kinds of cars across the board how about you?
I don't know about you but I don't drive around town like a maniac at 5,000+ RPM all the time. Most of the time when you are cruising at speed say 30-50 mph you are likely in 5th or 6th gear which puts you at or under 3,000 RPM. Part of the fun of owning a 7.0L V8 is that you should be able to mash the gas at regular cruising speed without having to downshift to blow by a few people when desired. Having to downshift is something people complain about in a no torque 4 banger not a V8 beast. I'd venture to guess that most Z06's are driven more on the street than track and those that are tracked are still street cars. My neighbor that owns a prominent Corvette race shop even mentioned that the LS7 needs to be revved, I was just saying that was surprising not that they are bad cars. I almost pulled the trigger on a C6Z several times.
I don't even own a straight 6 or BMW right now LOL. But I've owned and raced all sorts of cars with all sorts of power plants including I4 NA, I4 supercharged, I4 turbo, V6 NA, V6TT, I6, Flat 6 and Rotary mounted front engine and mid engine in FWD, RWD and AWD configurations. I think I've had plenty of experience with all kinds of cars across the board how about you?
Conversely, the Japanese four cylinder cars I've owned demanded higher rpms when driving around town. And more frequent shifting. There's no way I could drive my Celica all the way across town at 1500 rpms - every little hill would require a downshift to get enough torque at the wheels to make it up without stalling. So most people tend to drive their four cylinder cars at higher rpms all the time. A larger V8 makes enough torque you can easily idle around in a highway gear at 30 mph without stalling or chugging. But you're still in 5th gear, so it's not going to accelerate like a bat out of hell that far out of the powerband and in that tall a gear.
Yes, performance V8's need to be revved to make power. Just because it's a V8 doesn't mean it makes all its power at low rpms, and just because it's a 7 liter monster doesn't mean it doesn't like to be revved.
I've owned all kinds of cars, I4's & V6's & V8's, missing out on a straight 6 and a boxer so far. I've owned several with V8's. And in every single one, you need to be in an appropriate gear to get the most acceleration. I realize people who have zero experience with V8's have these ideas that don't necessarily reflect reality, but it's just silly to make statements like "You should be able to just mash the gas and blow by people without downshifting at any speed and any gear." Where does that even come from? If you don't want to be bothered with shifting, get an auto that does it for you.
I didn't say at any speed at any gear. I said at the typical speeds and RPMS that you would be in just normally driving around town. For instance in my tuned 335i and my GT-R I can be putting around going 40 mph at 2,500 rpm and roll into the gas and pass people easily without needing to downshift. That's all I was saying.
06-05-2013, 02:52 PM
#35
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^ i think it is about gearing, the ls-7 has plenty of tq but it is more a track car not a highway cruiser, "driving fast" usually happens at higher RPMs for most people, you wouldnt want gears for below 3k rpm tq, thats not where your at on a track or spirited drive, you'd lose mid range and top end, both of which the vette is legendary especially per dollar!
06-05-2013, 04:21 PM
#36
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I didn't say at any speed at any gear. I said at the typical speeds and RPMS that you would be in just normally driving around town. For instance in my tuned 335i and my GT-R I can be putting around going 40 mph at 2,500 rpm and roll into the gas and pass people easily without needing to downshift. That's all I was saying.
I didn't say at any speed at any gear. I said at the typical speeds and RPMS that you would be in just normally driving around town. For instance in my tuned 335i and my GT-R I can be putting around going 40 mph at 2,500 rpm and roll into the gas and pass people easily without needing to downshift. That's all I was saying.
A turbo 6 operates like a weak N/A version of the same displacement under light load. So you are in a lower gear and closer to the powerband than you'd be in a strong V8 car at the same speed. The V8 motor makes anough torque to push a tall gear, keeping rpms low while driving around town. You are right that the smaller displacement turbo 6 will definitely feel faster if you don't let the transmission shift, but it's in a lower gear and closer to the powerband.
I'm not arguing with you. I'm just saying your comparison highlights a real difference between a V8 and a turbo 6. If you have very little experience with V8 cars, you'd not realize the difference in power delivery and what it means. They are different enough that trying to judge the V8 by how it pushes you back in the seat when you refuse to downshift is just meaningless. Yes, you need to rev a performance V8. You aren't going to be passing anything fast in your 335 or GTR in 4th or 5th gear at 30 mph either. But at 30 mph it's probably normally in 3rd or 2nd, while you've got the Vette in 4th.
All I'm saying is your observation regarding the 7.0 liter Corvette and what you think it should be stems from unfamiliarity. And they make plenty of torque at lower rpms, which is why you can be in 4th tooling around town.
06-10-2013, 03:59 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Here is the rest of the story...
I spoke to the owner when he returned from vacation. 29k miles on the car, K&N air filter is the only modification, he wants $39.9 not $38k and says he is absolutely firm on that price because it books for so much more (he quoted $48k NADA value).
THE BAD: He is not the original owner. He bought it from a Chevy dealer on ebay and knows nothing about the original owner, except that the car was maintained at the local Chevy dealership where it was purchased (he has since maintainted it at his local small time Chevy dealer). It had 10k miles on it when he bought it. He had to have the 3rd and 4th gear synchros replaced in the transmission. Then, the 5th and 6th gear synchros needed to be replaced, so they offered him a new transmission- entirely covered under warranty and done at the dealership.
From reading on corvetteforums, it seems this is not an uncommon problem on the C6Z06. I found some threads where people who have 5k miles on their car had to get a new transmission or synchros replaced under warranty (they were certain it was not from abuse). I am unsure about this deal now, as I am worried that the original owner may have been hard on the car. Even with the new babied transmission, the engine may have some wear and tear. The owner mentioned that I can speak to his dealer and the only tech they let work on his Z06.
Anyone have thoughts? Walk away? Consider buying anyway but compression test it or do something else extra to cover my ass? The owner said it may still have powertrain warranty remaining and is going to check for me. Even if it does, it likely runs out soon. Perhaps I should buy an extended warranty and drive the piss out of it in stock trim for a couple of years?
I spoke to the owner when he returned from vacation. 29k miles on the car, K&N air filter is the only modification, he wants $39.9 not $38k and says he is absolutely firm on that price because it books for so much more (he quoted $48k NADA value).
THE BAD: He is not the original owner. He bought it from a Chevy dealer on ebay and knows nothing about the original owner, except that the car was maintained at the local Chevy dealership where it was purchased (he has since maintainted it at his local small time Chevy dealer). It had 10k miles on it when he bought it. He had to have the 3rd and 4th gear synchros replaced in the transmission. Then, the 5th and 6th gear synchros needed to be replaced, so they offered him a new transmission- entirely covered under warranty and done at the dealership.
From reading on corvetteforums, it seems this is not an uncommon problem on the C6Z06. I found some threads where people who have 5k miles on their car had to get a new transmission or synchros replaced under warranty (they were certain it was not from abuse). I am unsure about this deal now, as I am worried that the original owner may have been hard on the car. Even with the new babied transmission, the engine may have some wear and tear. The owner mentioned that I can speak to his dealer and the only tech they let work on his Z06.
Anyone have thoughts? Walk away? Consider buying anyway but compression test it or do something else extra to cover my ass? The owner said it may still have powertrain warranty remaining and is going to check for me. Even if it does, it likely runs out soon. Perhaps I should buy an extended warranty and drive the piss out of it in stock trim for a couple of years?
06-10-2013, 07:37 PM
#38
How risk averse are you? Do you enjoy gambling? It still could be a really good deal, or a not-so-good one. Buddy of mine recently scored a cherry '09 w/ modded engine (over 600hp) and low miles for something like $41K. Sounded too good to be true until he blew the engine "just driving around". Now he faces a $14K min. repair bill!
I decided I'm more comfortable w/ the C5 Z06's track record and operating costs.
I decided I'm more comfortable w/ the C5 Z06's track record and operating costs.
06-11-2013, 08:45 AM
#39
Registered User
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8' timestamp='1370450471' post='22588419
[quote name='CosmosMpower' timestamp='1370445435' post='22588167']...
I don't know about you but I don't drive around town like a maniac at 5,000+ RPM all the time. Most of the time when you are cruising at speed say 30-50 mph you are likely in 5th or 6th gear which puts you at or under 3,000 RPM. Part of the fun of owning a 7.0L V8 is that you should be able to mash the gas at regular cruising speed without having to downshift to blow by a few people when desired. Having to downshift is something people complain about in a no torque 4 banger not a V8 beast. I'd venture to guess that most Z06's are driven more on the street than track and those that are tracked are still street cars. My neighbor that owns a prominent Corvette race shop even mentioned that the LS7 needs to be revved, I was just saying that was surprising not that they are bad cars. I almost pulled the trigger on a C6Z several times.
I don't even own a straight 6 or BMW right now LOL. But I've owned and raced all sorts of cars with all sorts of power plants including I4 NA, I4 supercharged, I4 turbo, V6 NA, V6TT, I6, Flat 6 and Rotary mounted front engine and mid engine in FWD, RWD and AWD configurations. I think I've had plenty of experience with all kinds of cars across the board how about you?
I don't know about you but I don't drive around town like a maniac at 5,000+ RPM all the time. Most of the time when you are cruising at speed say 30-50 mph you are likely in 5th or 6th gear which puts you at or under 3,000 RPM. Part of the fun of owning a 7.0L V8 is that you should be able to mash the gas at regular cruising speed without having to downshift to blow by a few people when desired. Having to downshift is something people complain about in a no torque 4 banger not a V8 beast. I'd venture to guess that most Z06's are driven more on the street than track and those that are tracked are still street cars. My neighbor that owns a prominent Corvette race shop even mentioned that the LS7 needs to be revved, I was just saying that was surprising not that they are bad cars. I almost pulled the trigger on a C6Z several times.
I don't even own a straight 6 or BMW right now LOL. But I've owned and raced all sorts of cars with all sorts of power plants including I4 NA, I4 supercharged, I4 turbo, V6 NA, V6TT, I6, Flat 6 and Rotary mounted front engine and mid engine in FWD, RWD and AWD configurations. I think I've had plenty of experience with all kinds of cars across the board how about you?
Conversely, the Japanese four cylinder cars I've owned demanded higher rpms when driving around town. And more frequent shifting. There's no way I could drive my Celica all the way across town at 1500 rpms - every little hill would require a downshift to get enough torque at the wheels to make it up without stalling. So most people tend to drive their four cylinder cars at higher rpms all the time. A larger V8 makes enough torque you can easily idle around in a highway gear at 30 mph without stalling or chugging. But you're still in 5th gear, so it's not going to accelerate like a bat out of hell that far out of the powerband and in that tall a gear.
Yes, performance V8's need to be revved to make power. Just because it's a V8 doesn't mean it makes all its power at low rpms, and just because it's a 7 liter monster doesn't mean it doesn't like to be revved.
I've owned all kinds of cars, I4's & V6's & V8's, missing out on a straight 6 and a boxer so far. I've owned several with V8's. And in every single one, you need to be in an appropriate gear to get the most acceleration. I realize people who have zero experience with V8's have these ideas that don't necessarily reflect reality, but it's just silly to make statements like "You should be able to just mash the gas and blow by people without downshifting at any speed and any gear." Where does that even come from? If you don't want to be bothered with shifting, get an auto that does it for you.
I didn't say at any speed at any gear. I said at the typical speeds and RPMS that you would be in just normally driving around town. For instance in my tuned 335i and my GT-R I can be putting around going 40 mph at 2,500 rpm and roll into the gas and pass people easily without needing to downshift. That's all I was saying.
[/quote]
Even with my car it doesn't take off all that fast at say 50mph in 3rd gear which is 2500 rmps. But, I can still easily pass most cars without downshifting. If that's the bar I would be surprised if the Z06 couldn't do the same. Of course it's redline is higher than mine so it would be more like ~2800 rpms to be an apples to apples comparison. It would be surprised if a C6Z06 could not pass most cars easily in 3rd gear around 50mph.
My evo in the same sort of situation would accelerate at much closer to it's max rate in a larger rpm range. The acr accelerates extremely linearly until 4.5k where it goes non-linear for a sec before returning to linear accel up to redline. It will 'push you back into your seat' at different rpm ranges, but it's accel isn't greatest unless you are above 4.5k. It's a stark difference below that much like the s2000.
06-11-2013, 01:49 PM
#40
Thread Starter
How risk averse are you? Do you enjoy gambling? It still could be a really good deal, or a not-so-good one. Buddy of mine recently scored a cherry '09 w/ modded engine (over 600hp) and low miles for something like $41K. Sounded too good to be true until he blew the engine "just driving around". Now he faces a $14K min. repair bill!
I decided I'm more comfortable w/ the C5 Z06's track record and operating costs.
I decided I'm more comfortable w/ the C5 Z06's track record and operating costs.
Chris- congrats on the Z06 purchase... even if it is ONLY a C5
. I am not a fan of that red leather, but the exterior color is superb.I do not gamble and generally prefer to avoid taking large financial risks. Keep in mind, it isn't like I was car shopping. When a guy at the track offers to let you drive his Z06, you say yes! I was fast enough in my STI that I didn't even have another car to run with all weekend. It was a lap-a-thon waiting for point-by's, and then I get in this guy's vette and coast around the track at nearly the same speeds while short-shifting, braking casually, and cruising comfortably through the turns. This was on a small, narrow track at that. I can only imagine how much the gap would widen on a real road course. It was rather enlightening- experiencing the next level, so to speak. Can you tell I loved the car?