Complaints of a GM retiree.....
11-21-2008, 11:44 AM
#1
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Complaints of a GM retiree.....
Standing at the factory gate he once entered for 33 years is like visiting a cemetery for George Hall.
On the other side of the locked gate, there are only remains. The General Motors plant where he worked in Linden, N.J. was recently bulldozed three years after shutting down.
Hall hopes the same fate doesn't lie ahead for the entire company, especially since his health insurance and pension still rely upon GM.
"Most everybody that's ever worked here, you worked on the promise that your pension was secure. Now you're finding out that possibly that promise was a lie and maybe it's not going to be secure," said Hall.
Not only is the 54-year old retiree worried about his financial security, but he's angry as well, believing executives of GM (GM, Fortune 500), Ford (F, Fortune 500) and Chrysler did a poor job this week, asking for help from Congress.
Ok, I would be worried about my pension too, but here is my problem in a nutshell. You got paid $60k a year to build cars. Thats not making you rich, but its a pretty good salary for someone with the benifits that come with it, the fact that it generally requires nothing more than a high school education, and the fact that you retire at age 54. 54 people. 54.
Now most people have 401k 's and can retire at 54 with the $30k a year he is getting, but they have to put aside money from their paycheck to do it and it takes some sacrifice. This money is on top of pretty good money he was making to put screws into a hole.
I don't begrudge the guy for worrying that his retirement after 33 years of work is at stake, but if this is the example that I am suppoed to feel sorry for? Take $25 billion in tax money from people working, many of whom must work well passed 54 years of age, to protect the pensions of a high school educated 54 year old retiree? And by the way, you'll be taking it from people who just saw their retirement accounts cut in half and had their working lives extended with no bailout for them.
Am I wrong that this should kind of piss people off?
On the other side of the locked gate, there are only remains. The General Motors plant where he worked in Linden, N.J. was recently bulldozed three years after shutting down.
Hall hopes the same fate doesn't lie ahead for the entire company, especially since his health insurance and pension still rely upon GM.
"Most everybody that's ever worked here, you worked on the promise that your pension was secure. Now you're finding out that possibly that promise was a lie and maybe it's not going to be secure," said Hall.
Not only is the 54-year old retiree worried about his financial security, but he's angry as well, believing executives of GM (GM, Fortune 500), Ford (F, Fortune 500) and Chrysler did a poor job this week, asking for help from Congress.
Ok, I would be worried about my pension too, but here is my problem in a nutshell. You got paid $60k a year to build cars. Thats not making you rich, but its a pretty good salary for someone with the benifits that come with it, the fact that it generally requires nothing more than a high school education, and the fact that you retire at age 54. 54 people. 54.
Now most people have 401k 's and can retire at 54 with the $30k a year he is getting, but they have to put aside money from their paycheck to do it and it takes some sacrifice. This money is on top of pretty good money he was making to put screws into a hole.
I don't begrudge the guy for worrying that his retirement after 33 years of work is at stake, but if this is the example that I am suppoed to feel sorry for? Take $25 billion in tax money from people working, many of whom must work well passed 54 years of age, to protect the pensions of a high school educated 54 year old retiree? And by the way, you'll be taking it from people who just saw their retirement accounts cut in half and had their working lives extended with no bailout for them.
Am I wrong that this should kind of piss people off?
11-21-2008, 11:48 AM
#2
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I am totally disgusted by union workers complaining because their extortion isn't working out as well as they thought it would. Hard to feel too bad for people complaining that their pensions are in jeopardy when plenty of people who don't have pensions have seen their retirement accounts go way down in the past year with no hope for a bailout.
11-21-2008, 11:49 AM
#3
Socialism has the tendancy to piss off people who work hard for an honest living. So yeah, you have every right to be pissed that your money (remember, the government has no money) is being wasted.
11-21-2008, 12:10 PM
#4
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I'm disgusted with the current union pay-and-benefits but at the same time, GM signed up for it so it is not an obligation they should be able to weasel out of. Pensions ('defined benefit plans') are part of a worker's retirement planning. It isn't right to consider kicking that leg out from under them AFTER they put in the time.
I got zero problem telling folks pension accruals stop right now though. Not as if that many American companies still have pensions for new hires.
I got zero problem telling folks pension accruals stop right now though. Not as if that many American companies still have pensions for new hires.
11-21-2008, 12:14 PM
#5
Originally Posted by Penforhire,Nov 21 2008, 01:10 PM
I'm disgusted with the current union pay-and-benefits but at the same time, GM signed up for it so it is not an obligation they should be able to weasel out of. Pensions ('defined benefit plans') are part of a worker's retirement planning. It isn't right to consider kicking that leg out from under them AFTER they put in the time.
Same for these guys. Life is rough, buy a ****ing helmet.
11-21-2008, 12:23 PM
#6
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So, that is roughly $30/hour. Meanwhile, the GM CEO's are making roughly $1210/hour + golden parachute retirement packages. 
Seems like we're getting pissed about the small man in this story, and not the giant elephants lurking behind the curtains.
Just let them (GM) fail and be done with it.
Seems like we're getting pissed about the small man in this story, and not the giant elephants lurking behind the curtains.
Just let them (GM) fail and be done with it.
11-21-2008, 12:29 PM
#7
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yea i feel bad for that guy. he signed up for the job and worked many years BECAUSE he was planning on retiring early.
now if they go under, he's screwed.
But i completely see your point - the guy should never have had that good of a deal to begin with. retiring at 54??? jesus i wish...
now if they go under, he's screwed.
But i completely see your point - the guy should never have had that good of a deal to begin with. retiring at 54??? jesus i wish...
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11-21-2008, 12:45 PM
#8
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umm...pensions are secure...PBGC, anyone...
If they had ridiculously low early retirement factors, then yes, their benefits may not be as good as it would've been, as is the case with airline pilots and union workers..
If they had ridiculously low early retirement factors, then yes, their benefits may not be as good as it would've been, as is the case with airline pilots and union workers..
11-21-2008, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by thebig33tuna,Nov 21 2008, 01:29 PM
yea i feel bad for that guy. he signed up for the job and worked many years BECAUSE he was planning on retiring early.
now if they go under, he's screwed.
But i completely see your point - the guy should never have had that good of a deal to begin with. retiring at 54??? jesus i wish...
now if they go under, he's screwed.
But i completely see your point - the guy should never have had that good of a deal to begin with. retiring at 54??? jesus i wish...
Good point. But like you said, I totally understand the OP's point, and I kinda feel the same way.
Dan