CNG anyone
09-11-2008, 09:23 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
CNG anyone
Forget the ethanol crap, hydrogen, and even electric cars - what about compressed natural gas?
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transp...n/afvs/cng.html
Thoughts?
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transp...n/afvs/cng.html
Thoughts?
COMPRESSED NATURAL GAS (CNG) AS A TRANSPORTATION FUEL
natural gas flame courtesy SoCal Gas
What is CNG?
Compressed natural gas, or CNG, is natural gas under pressure which remains clear, odorless, and non-corrosive. Although vehicles can use natural gas as either a liquid or a gas, most vehicles use the gaseous form compressed to pressures above 3,100 pounds per square inch.
How is natural gas produced?
Most natural gas comes from three types of wells: natural gas-and-condensate wells, oil wells, and coal bed methane wells. In 2003, California had over 1,200 natural gas-and-condensate wells operating. Well-extracted natural gas requires a cleanup process before it can be used in vehicles or residences.
Where does natural gas come from?
More than 99 percent of the natural gas used in the United States comes from domestic or other North American sources. However, increasing demand for natural gas in power plants will require new supplies from non-North American countries, increasing our dependence on foreign sources of energy. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) predicts that, by 2025, more than 15 percent of our natural gas supplies will be imported from countries other than Canada and Mexico.
How is natural gas delivered to transportation customers in California?
In 2004, California produced 15.4 percent of its natural gas from in-state wells. The rest is imported by pipeline from Canada and the Rocky Mountain and Southwestern states. California gas utilities such as Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Gas, and San Diego Gas & Electric distribute the fuel to customers. Most CNG vehicle fueling stations are owned and operated by private companies and local governments.
How is natural gas stored?
In smaller fueling locations and on vehicles, CNG is stored in thick-walled steel, aluminum, or composite tanks built to last more than 20 years.
Is natural gas flammable?
When released, compressed natural gas will mix with air and become flammable only when the mixture is within 5 to 15 percent natural gas. When the mixture is less than 5 percent natural gas, it doesn't burn. When the mixture is more than 15 percent natural gas, there is not enough oxygen to allow it to burn. Because natural gas is lighter then air, it quickly dissipates when released from tanks.
What are the benefits of using natural gas in transportation?
Natural gas is produced both worldwide and domestically at relatively low cost and is cleaner burning than gasoline or diesel fuel. Natural gas vehicles show an average reduction in ozone-forming emissions of 80 percent compared to gasoline vehicles.
What vehicles use natural gas?
CNG vehicles have been introduced in a wide variety of commercial applications, from light-duty trucks and sedans - like taxi cabs, to medium-duty trucks - like UPS delivery vans and postal vehicles, to heavy-duty vehicles like transit buses, street sweepers (pictured right) and school buses. In California, transit agency buses are some of the most visible CNG vehicles.
Can CNG vehicles access HOV lanes?
California allows single-occupant use of High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes by CNG vehicles under 14,000 pounds. Owners of eligible vehicles must first obtain an identification sticker from the California Department of Motor Vehicles before using HOV lanes.
Are there any home refueling options for CNG?
A home refueling appliance named "Phill" has been released in California in 2005 from FuelMaker Corporation. With this device, CNG vehicle owners can now refuel their vehicles overnight in their own home, from their household natural gas line. For more information on this appliance, visit the FuelMaker Web Site at www.myphill.com
How much does CNG cost?
Southern California Gas estimates CNG currently costs about 40 percent less than gasoline. As of July 2005, PG&E charges approximately $1.40 per therm, equivalent to about $1.78 per gasoline gallon, for CNG used as a motor fuel.
What types of CNG vehicle projects has the California Energy Commission funded?
The Energy Commission has provided more than $4 million in grant cost-share funding for about 40 CNG fueling stations, the incremental cost of light-duty vehicles, and purchase of 369 CNG-powered school buses. The Energy Commission has also funded research and development to improve the performance of natural gas engines.
natural gas flame courtesy SoCal Gas
What is CNG?
Compressed natural gas, or CNG, is natural gas under pressure which remains clear, odorless, and non-corrosive. Although vehicles can use natural gas as either a liquid or a gas, most vehicles use the gaseous form compressed to pressures above 3,100 pounds per square inch.
How is natural gas produced?
Most natural gas comes from three types of wells: natural gas-and-condensate wells, oil wells, and coal bed methane wells. In 2003, California had over 1,200 natural gas-and-condensate wells operating. Well-extracted natural gas requires a cleanup process before it can be used in vehicles or residences.
Where does natural gas come from?
More than 99 percent of the natural gas used in the United States comes from domestic or other North American sources. However, increasing demand for natural gas in power plants will require new supplies from non-North American countries, increasing our dependence on foreign sources of energy. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) predicts that, by 2025, more than 15 percent of our natural gas supplies will be imported from countries other than Canada and Mexico.
How is natural gas delivered to transportation customers in California?
In 2004, California produced 15.4 percent of its natural gas from in-state wells. The rest is imported by pipeline from Canada and the Rocky Mountain and Southwestern states. California gas utilities such as Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Gas, and San Diego Gas & Electric distribute the fuel to customers. Most CNG vehicle fueling stations are owned and operated by private companies and local governments.
How is natural gas stored?
In smaller fueling locations and on vehicles, CNG is stored in thick-walled steel, aluminum, or composite tanks built to last more than 20 years.
Is natural gas flammable?
When released, compressed natural gas will mix with air and become flammable only when the mixture is within 5 to 15 percent natural gas. When the mixture is less than 5 percent natural gas, it doesn't burn. When the mixture is more than 15 percent natural gas, there is not enough oxygen to allow it to burn. Because natural gas is lighter then air, it quickly dissipates when released from tanks.
What are the benefits of using natural gas in transportation?
Natural gas is produced both worldwide and domestically at relatively low cost and is cleaner burning than gasoline or diesel fuel. Natural gas vehicles show an average reduction in ozone-forming emissions of 80 percent compared to gasoline vehicles.
What vehicles use natural gas?
CNG vehicles have been introduced in a wide variety of commercial applications, from light-duty trucks and sedans - like taxi cabs, to medium-duty trucks - like UPS delivery vans and postal vehicles, to heavy-duty vehicles like transit buses, street sweepers (pictured right) and school buses. In California, transit agency buses are some of the most visible CNG vehicles.
Can CNG vehicles access HOV lanes?
California allows single-occupant use of High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes by CNG vehicles under 14,000 pounds. Owners of eligible vehicles must first obtain an identification sticker from the California Department of Motor Vehicles before using HOV lanes.
Are there any home refueling options for CNG?
A home refueling appliance named "Phill" has been released in California in 2005 from FuelMaker Corporation. With this device, CNG vehicle owners can now refuel their vehicles overnight in their own home, from their household natural gas line. For more information on this appliance, visit the FuelMaker Web Site at www.myphill.com
How much does CNG cost?
Southern California Gas estimates CNG currently costs about 40 percent less than gasoline. As of July 2005, PG&E charges approximately $1.40 per therm, equivalent to about $1.78 per gasoline gallon, for CNG used as a motor fuel.
What types of CNG vehicle projects has the California Energy Commission funded?
The Energy Commission has provided more than $4 million in grant cost-share funding for about 40 CNG fueling stations, the incremental cost of light-duty vehicles, and purchase of 369 CNG-powered school buses. The Energy Commission has also funded research and development to improve the performance of natural gas engines.
09-11-2008, 09:35 AM
#2
I actually got asked by someone why it is illegal to have a CNG filling station from your home gas line in our state right now just about a week ago.
The utility company here lobbied to make them very hard to get. The reason is that the utility company would have to upgrade lots of gas lines to deilver enough to make CNG in peoples homes. Its apparently legal and gets tax credits in two states right now. Cali is one?????
Secondly they did not want the average numb nuts having something they could screw up and blow up their house with. And they did not want the extra service calls of installing and maintaining them.
Not my views, just what I was told by my wife who lobbies for an electric utility but used to do so for a gas company.
I thought the gas utilities would be foaming at the mouth for more sales opportunities but apparently the major one in MN has no interest.
For a several year period they had been installing thousands of new construction hookups with some kind of new plastic lines. These lines have had several occurances of failure where the plastic is coupled to the metal and has resulted in half a dozen home explosions in the last couple years. Kablooie. House gone. Sorry, our bad.
They are trying to figure out how to quietly solve this problem of thousands of hookups to redo before they can tackle in home CNG.
The utility company here lobbied to make them very hard to get. The reason is that the utility company would have to upgrade lots of gas lines to deilver enough to make CNG in peoples homes. Its apparently legal and gets tax credits in two states right now. Cali is one?????
Secondly they did not want the average numb nuts having something they could screw up and blow up their house with. And they did not want the extra service calls of installing and maintaining them.
Not my views, just what I was told by my wife who lobbies for an electric utility but used to do so for a gas company.
I thought the gas utilities would be foaming at the mouth for more sales opportunities but apparently the major one in MN has no interest.
For a several year period they had been installing thousands of new construction hookups with some kind of new plastic lines. These lines have had several occurances of failure where the plastic is coupled to the metal and has resulted in half a dozen home explosions in the last couple years. Kablooie. House gone. Sorry, our bad.
They are trying to figure out how to quietly solve this problem of thousands of hookups to redo before they can tackle in home CNG.
09-11-2008, 09:45 AM
#3
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As nearly as I can tell CNG would be a pain in the rear. Need high pressure tanks to store it both at the point of sale and in the vehicle. So quite a few infrastructure changes. Relatively short range.
We don't have enough to fuel our domestic fleet. Much of it would have to be imported and if you can't get what you need from Canada and Mexico, then you have to bring it over in LNG tankers and those deals are expensive to build and run and there aren't very many of them. Much cheaper to transport oil and it will come from the same people anyway.
Our friend T. Boone is looking for two things.
1. A government handout to make his wind farms profitable. Our government transferring your money to his pockets.
2. A way to up the value of his natural gas reserves as a use (he hopes govt mandated) for motor fuel.
Speaking of wind farms. They are largely a joke. They are about 30% efficient at best. You have to put spinning reserves behind them anyway and guess what? The spinning reserves will be largely powered by natural gas since coal and nukes are no good for supplying peaking energy. Ol' T. Boone cashes in again as he sells his gas to the generators.
We don't have enough to fuel our domestic fleet. Much of it would have to be imported and if you can't get what you need from Canada and Mexico, then you have to bring it over in LNG tankers and those deals are expensive to build and run and there aren't very many of them. Much cheaper to transport oil and it will come from the same people anyway.
Our friend T. Boone is looking for two things.
1. A government handout to make his wind farms profitable. Our government transferring your money to his pockets.
2. A way to up the value of his natural gas reserves as a use (he hopes govt mandated) for motor fuel.
Speaking of wind farms. They are largely a joke. They are about 30% efficient at best. You have to put spinning reserves behind them anyway and guess what? The spinning reserves will be largely powered by natural gas since coal and nukes are no good for supplying peaking energy. Ol' T. Boone cashes in again as he sells his gas to the generators.
09-11-2008, 09:48 AM
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Drivers in Utah are clamoring for CNG cars. They get to fill up for the equivalent of 87 cents a gallon! Check it out
09-11-2008, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by kadeshpa,Sep 11 2008, 11:48 AM
Drivers in Utah are clamoring for CNG cars. They get to fill up for the equivalent of 87 cents a gallon! Check it out
09-11-2008, 10:34 AM
#6
I'm not a fan. As a user of natural gas for heat and cooking, I'm painfully aware of how volatile the price is now. I can only imagine how much more painful that will get if everyone used it to drive around.
09-11-2008, 11:04 AM
#7
[QUOTE=Slithr,Sep 11 2008, 11:45 AM]
Our friend T. Boone is looking for two things.
1.
Our friend T. Boone is looking for two things.
1.
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09-11-2008, 03:10 PM
#10
Registered User
They are a great idea for a commuter car (Honda Civic GX) along with overnight filling through PHILL (did I spell that right?) a CA subsidized home pumping station. There just aren't enough high-pressure fill stations around (yet).
They also are a great idea for municipal vehicles (garbage trucks, busses, city transport vehicles) and I seem to recall Los Angeles just signed a deal for 40 such garbage trucks.
They also are a great idea for municipal vehicles (garbage trucks, busses, city transport vehicles) and I seem to recall Los Angeles just signed a deal for 40 such garbage trucks.