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I didn't mean for you to take it personally, I'm sorry if it sounded that way.

Basically, in your first post you cite a diesel that supposedly has emissions equivalent to ULEV, but in your second post you state as a fact that diesels stink and are slow. Maybe you meant the ones in the US market, but you didn't state that in your post.

You also rightly point out that it's not fair to equate mileage to cost as diesel is (currently) more expensive than gas in the US. And yet in your previous post you quote an Accord's mileage in Imperial gallons, which is misleading.

There are 2 problems with selling diesels in the US. One is lowering particulate emissions to meet our tough standards. Another is a bad perception. There is misinformation on both sides. Diesels are a lot cleaner, quieter, and faster than they used to be. But they are not perfect yet, most new ones still do not meet CA emissions, and though the torque numbers are crazy the nature of the diesel powerband makes that figure not comparable to gas engines as well. But the current state of the art diesels available in Europe do have a better economy/performance/price tradeoff than current hybrids, and it would be great if they were available here. A BMW 5 series wagon with the 3.0l bi-turbodiesel with 270hp/400lb-ft torque is a car I would want!

Peter

cdelena

Huh? Why would the emissions laws in this case be bad for the environment or be applied unequally for different solutions.

I am certainly not a tree hugger but it does not take much time behind a dirty (even a fairly new) diesel to decide the requirements for low particulates are a good idea.

Between the added cost of emissions equipment and the higher cost of diesel fuel it does not seem to be a big payoff for the consumer in this country. In Europe where taxes on displacement and regulation favor diesels the economics make more sense.

I would love to have the option of a CLEAN turbo diesel, and reasonable fuel prices with good availability, but that does not exist in this country and does not seem to be on the horizon.

MDXLuvr

My question is: If I do buy a jetta diesel today, what will happen to my car when it doesn't pass inspection in 2007 or 2008. Then what do I do with it.

Palmateer

Every car sold here is certified.

Future inspections will only be checking to see if it meets original specs.

6sigma

I guess it depends on what the goal is. Emissions laws are designed to protect the environment, but as a side effect encourage conservation of fossil fuels. Modern diesel tech offers 20-30% comparative fuel usage reductions versus unleaded gasoline, but suffers from higher output of particulates and nitrogen oxides. So, my point is that the emissions laws that have pushed gasoline engines to near zero pollution (not counting CO2) won't allow the fuel usage reduction possible with modern diesels. If you do count CO2 as a pollutant, or if your goal is to reduce fuel consumption, then diesel is more favorable as it burns less fuel. Moving forward on the clean scale from todays SULEV gasoline engines brings us to hybrids and eventually pure electric. Modern 'clean' diesel technology fits nicely in between, as a transitional technology, but alas the US emissions laws (CA laws mostly) wont allow it in wide use. Some of this is due to the extremely poor quality diesel fuel that is prevalent in the US. High cetane, low sulphur diesel fuel is required to meet emission goals.

I'd take a Jetta TDI wagon that gets better mileage than a Prius (plus it's cheaper, carries more, has no special batteries to replace, performs better, etc). The Jetta TDI I did have was not a sports car, but had perfectly acceptable performance. It also did not smoke and the smell was only noticeable on cold start. Personally, I find the fuel-rich noxious smell of a cold-start gasoline engine worse than the cold diesel. I concede that diesels will not save money though, they are more expensive than gasoline engines, and presently diesel fuel costs more (although prior to about a year ago diesel was usually less than unleaded). You have to drive a LOT of miles to reach payback period on even an inexpensive VW TDI.

Lice Locket

I think you misread my first post... the UK ACCORD DIESEL car gets a low emissions rating, which is similar to the one we have here. I didn't mean diesel in general.

So, Honda proved that you CAN burn diesel and have low emissions. Supposedly, it doesn't stink neither. Unfortunately, this car won' come to the US.

TrojanHorse

I find that most Americans that bash diesels as noisy/stinky have not been to Europe recently and are still stuck in the early '80's VW Rabbit mindset.

For example. I went to Toulose/Barcelona last year for work with 4 of my redneck/Coors Light drinking/NASCAR fan mechanics. We had a 5 door Ford Contour hatchback (I forget the model name in France). I drove them all from Toulouse to Barcelona on the freeway at about 100 mph+ with the AC cranked up for the F1 race. We then blasted all over town and most of the way back before I had to make a fuel stop.

When I started to put the diesel nozzle in the tank they all started yelling at me"What are you doing! You have the diesel line" They never even KNEW it was a diesel in about a week and 500+ miles driving.

I would drive a diesel as a commuter/work ride in a heartbeat. We got over 40 mpg and I drove it like I stole it the whole time. (Rental Car ya know, plus I just saw Schumacher tearing it up at the Spanish GP)

Now I wish the companies would start putting Diesels in smaller trucks like F150s or Toyota Tacomas and then I would be loving it. Towing power AND mileage.