buy Evo8 or S2000?
05-09-2003, 01:09 PM
#11
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there are 200+ MPH evo's running around. They don't really have any weak points. I'm about to get rid of my s2000 and get myself a nice rally red evo. Believe it or not I LOVE the way the evo looks. Boxy and muscular, like a little japanese rocket. It's a friggin rally car, not a little roadster. It was an easy decision for me man. Especially knowing I can spank pretty much anything on the road still running on the stock turbo.
I bought the S2000 because I felt it was the most raw, brand new available car at the time I bought it. No bullcrap traction controls that change the way you drive, no auto offered, just pure roadster performance. I didn't care that you couldn't mod for power, I didn't care that it didn't have torque. It was the most fun, all-out car on the road period(in my price range). Enter the EVO into the mix.....and that is no longer the case(for me personally). The EVO is even more of a raw car, ESPECIALLY the USDM version that comes with the aggresive 5-speed gearing, and no traction control ayc/acd bullcrap.
I bought the S2000 because I felt it was the most raw, brand new available car at the time I bought it. No bullcrap traction controls that change the way you drive, no auto offered, just pure roadster performance. I didn't care that you couldn't mod for power, I didn't care that it didn't have torque. It was the most fun, all-out car on the road period(in my price range). Enter the EVO into the mix.....and that is no longer the case(for me personally). The EVO is even more of a raw car, ESPECIALLY the USDM version that comes with the aggresive 5-speed gearing, and no traction control ayc/acd bullcrap.
05-09-2003, 01:15 PM
#12
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xpander4, I thought you were pro S2000 from your first post, but seeing how you've driven the Evo8, can you enlighten me some more on how the handling/driving nature, etc between the two? You are the exact person I need to hear from.
05-09-2003, 01:17 PM
#13
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Why don't you add the RX8 into the mix. Sort of a compromise between the two. You get a true sports car
instead of a souped up econobox. Seating for 4 adults. The integrity of a hardtop plus decent storage. Great looks.Although I realize that looks are in the eye of the beholder. I think the Evo 8 is an awesome car, but butt ugly even more so than the original WRX.
instead of a souped up econobox. Seating for 4 adults. The integrity of a hardtop plus decent storage. Great looks.Although I realize that looks are in the eye of the beholder. I think the Evo 8 is an awesome car, but butt ugly even more so than the original WRX.
05-09-2003, 01:29 PM
#14
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I think it should also depend on where you live. Here in Texas its top down 6-9 months out of the year, which really makes the S2000 a lot of fun to drive in the summer or cruise in. I love my S (just wrapped my first month of ownership). I've never owned a car that makes me want to come up with places to drive it. It's got great style, a strong engine (no EVO,but strong enough unless you're going to race; which I'd only once in a while on the street if challenged). It's all about what you want, but you'll definately be getting yourself more ass in the S and have more fun 
Just remember - a Lancer with a souped up engine is still a Lancer...much like a neon with a souped up engine is still a neon.
Enjoy whatever you decide to go with. For my money S all the way
Just remember - a Lancer with a souped up engine is still a Lancer...much like a neon with a souped up engine is still a neon.
Enjoy whatever you decide to go with. For my money S all the way
05-09-2003, 01:34 PM
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myself I would get the s2000 at this point if I was buying a car.
To me buying a car is a thing of love and not a best/fastest/cheapest equation. I get a car it's because I'm infatuated with it and I expect to be for a long time. I get it for the long run.
To me the look of a car is important since beauty counts for something in my eyes =) I don't think the evo looks but, but I do think the s2000 is gorgeous.
But if speed or practicality is important to you, I would select the evo, but for me I have another car for practicality and speed is good, but I can only use so much in daily driving.
I am curious to see how well sti and evos fair in the long term tests.
To me buying a car is a thing of love and not a best/fastest/cheapest equation. I get a car it's because I'm infatuated with it and I expect to be for a long time. I get it for the long run.
To me the look of a car is important since beauty counts for something in my eyes =) I don't think the evo looks but, but I do think the s2000 is gorgeous.
But if speed or practicality is important to you, I would select the evo, but for me I have another car for practicality and speed is good, but I can only use so much in daily driving.
I am curious to see how well sti and evos fair in the long term tests.
05-09-2003, 01:57 PM
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If you need a car to get ass, and you know you won't be able to get yourself ass in an EVO, then go for the s2000 I guess.
The EVOs handling is pretty much perfect man. Let me describe to you what happens when you reach the limit(which is very high) on an evo: once you've reached the grip limit, you will easily know because the car will begin to slightly understeer(push forward to the outside). Once you estabish where the limit is all you have to do is get rid of the understeer, and you're on your way. How do we get rid of understeer? Easy just lift off the gas slightly, and boom you're right back on your line. That is how friggin predictable the car is. When I said it inspires confidence, I wasn't kidding. You can take this car further than you've ever taken a car before(safely and in total control), I will guarantee you this.
If you want to enter a 4wheel drift when you are approaching the limit, rather than throttle lift, you can hold throttle and trail brake(left foot on the brake) and the car will slowly rotate, and screech its way into a nice drift. This is where the car's RIDICULOUS steering comes in. The feel of the steering wheel communicates EVERYTHING into your hands(the s2000s is too electronic feeling), and adds to the overall predictability of the car when near the limits. Also, it's only 2 turns around lock-to-lock which is probably the lowest ratio steering on a street legal car. This means that rather than having a crazy arm workout to counter steer and re-counter steer(like in the s2000), you only have to make minor adjustments of the wheel to put the car in place. This is something you have to get used to because on the highway, one nudge of the wheel if your not paying attention, and your ass is in the other lane. It requires attention, and a good driver, but it's something that you can get used to, and then you'll wonder how you ever did without such surgically precise steering.....this is probably part of the reason why they didn't put a cruise control on this car.
Now the S2000 is a fun car driving at 7/10s....but if you wanna hit 9/10 and 10/10 you better be ready to sweat. At the limit of grip in the s2000, there is no tire screeching, and there is NO understeering. You're riding through a turn, at high throttle, and you're on your line, and all of the sudden your back end steps out. It does not slowly begin to slide out...it takes a FULL STEP out in one swift motion. How far this step is, is dependent on how fast you are driving. Now that you've reached the limit(in the evo you would be simply letting off the gas) in the S2000 you have to keep it floored or nearly floored(again depending on your speed), and that's where the fun begins. You counter steer in a split second reaction and the car now STEPS back the other way. It doesn't smoothly slide back into its line, no it takes the FULL STEP back on to its line after some serious back and forth maneuevering of the steering wheel. It is very violent, and i've had bruises on the sides of my legs from banging around trying to control drifts. You have to counter steer and than RE counter steer to keep the car in line. oh and if you're doing all this and you manage to hit a couple bumps mid turn, forget it. You better be andretti, or your not gonna be able to re-settle the car. The EVO is a friggin rally car made to run on dirt, so it takes bumps mid turn chews them up and spits them out. That is yet another huge factor in contributing to driver confidence.
Another factor is the powerband. VTEC transition mid turn is enough to put you into one of these snap drifts, while turbo spooling in the EVO will not send you out of control. There are times when we are lazy and not keeping our revs up through the turns, and we often fall out of VTEC or boost; however, thanks to the EVOs grippiness, boosting mid turn results in nothing but a little of that moderate understeer that is just so easy to handle. Just some more added confidence!
As far as getting your blood pumping, i'd have to say the S2000 gets it pumping more at the limit, simply because of its violent nature at the limit. If you just managed to control a lost back end in the s2000, you know what i'm talking about. Your blood is PUMPING....i don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. The EVO will get it pumping for different reasons other than imminent danger.
If you have any more questions let me know.
The EVOs handling is pretty much perfect man. Let me describe to you what happens when you reach the limit(which is very high) on an evo: once you've reached the grip limit, you will easily know because the car will begin to slightly understeer(push forward to the outside). Once you estabish where the limit is all you have to do is get rid of the understeer, and you're on your way. How do we get rid of understeer? Easy just lift off the gas slightly, and boom you're right back on your line. That is how friggin predictable the car is. When I said it inspires confidence, I wasn't kidding. You can take this car further than you've ever taken a car before(safely and in total control), I will guarantee you this.
If you want to enter a 4wheel drift when you are approaching the limit, rather than throttle lift, you can hold throttle and trail brake(left foot on the brake) and the car will slowly rotate, and screech its way into a nice drift. This is where the car's RIDICULOUS steering comes in. The feel of the steering wheel communicates EVERYTHING into your hands(the s2000s is too electronic feeling), and adds to the overall predictability of the car when near the limits. Also, it's only 2 turns around lock-to-lock which is probably the lowest ratio steering on a street legal car. This means that rather than having a crazy arm workout to counter steer and re-counter steer(like in the s2000), you only have to make minor adjustments of the wheel to put the car in place. This is something you have to get used to because on the highway, one nudge of the wheel if your not paying attention, and your ass is in the other lane. It requires attention, and a good driver, but it's something that you can get used to, and then you'll wonder how you ever did without such surgically precise steering.....this is probably part of the reason why they didn't put a cruise control on this car.
Now the S2000 is a fun car driving at 7/10s....but if you wanna hit 9/10 and 10/10 you better be ready to sweat. At the limit of grip in the s2000, there is no tire screeching, and there is NO understeering. You're riding through a turn, at high throttle, and you're on your line, and all of the sudden your back end steps out. It does not slowly begin to slide out...it takes a FULL STEP out in one swift motion. How far this step is, is dependent on how fast you are driving. Now that you've reached the limit(in the evo you would be simply letting off the gas) in the S2000 you have to keep it floored or nearly floored(again depending on your speed), and that's where the fun begins. You counter steer in a split second reaction and the car now STEPS back the other way. It doesn't smoothly slide back into its line, no it takes the FULL STEP back on to its line after some serious back and forth maneuevering of the steering wheel. It is very violent, and i've had bruises on the sides of my legs from banging around trying to control drifts. You have to counter steer and than RE counter steer to keep the car in line. oh and if you're doing all this and you manage to hit a couple bumps mid turn, forget it. You better be andretti, or your not gonna be able to re-settle the car. The EVO is a friggin rally car made to run on dirt, so it takes bumps mid turn chews them up and spits them out. That is yet another huge factor in contributing to driver confidence.
Another factor is the powerband. VTEC transition mid turn is enough to put you into one of these snap drifts, while turbo spooling in the EVO will not send you out of control. There are times when we are lazy and not keeping our revs up through the turns, and we often fall out of VTEC or boost; however, thanks to the EVOs grippiness, boosting mid turn results in nothing but a little of that moderate understeer that is just so easy to handle. Just some more added confidence!
As far as getting your blood pumping, i'd have to say the S2000 gets it pumping more at the limit, simply because of its violent nature at the limit. If you just managed to control a lost back end in the s2000, you know what i'm talking about. Your blood is PUMPING....i don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. The EVO will get it pumping for different reasons other than imminent danger.
If you have any more questions let me know.
05-09-2003, 06:04 PM
#17
OK.... we all know the Evo is a pretty sweet car (mine has 1500 miles on it and yours has zero ). Anyway... the S2000 is a great handling car too...
I took my S2000 to the track for about 15 track days and never had a problem with "all of the sudden my ass stepped out" stuff.... If you drive smooth, you are rewarded...if you jerk the car around (any car for that matter) you will pay the price. I drove my S2000 faster than Car & Driver got their S2000 to go around www.beaverun.com so I can at least drive somewhat hard..... no problems with the S2000 handling for me...
bla bla bla..... I sold my S2000 and have an evo, so feel free to PM me with any questions.....
My evo did turn a 13.46
). Anyway... the S2000 is a great handling car too...I took my S2000 to the track for about 15 track days and never had a problem with "all of the sudden my ass stepped out" stuff.... If you drive smooth, you are rewarded...if you jerk the car around (any car for that matter) you will pay the price. I drove my S2000 faster than Car & Driver got their S2000 to go around www.beaverun.com so I can at least drive somewhat hard..... no problems with the S2000 handling for me...
bla bla bla..... I sold my S2000 and have an evo, so feel free to PM me with any questions.....
My evo did turn a 13.46
05-09-2003, 07:40 PM
#19
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dood,
i have a 7.6 lb/hp S2000
at Buttonwillow last year i rode in the 1st evo VII in the US(left hand drive japanese export model, OZ wheel SEMA car), and gave its owner a ride in my car......he started calling mine the monster and begged me to give him another ride.
i just drove a EVO VIII on the street 2 days ago......the evo totally rocks...i'm getting one, the midrange punch and steering, blah, blah, blah is awesome...i could not find anything i didn't like about it..i love the looks. i have driven and considered buying but rejected Z06, Maserati Cambicorsa, Carrera recently, the evo is a better car. do anything possible to drive both cars and pick the one you like best.
i have a 7.6 lb/hp S2000
at Buttonwillow last year i rode in the 1st evo VII in the US(left hand drive japanese export model, OZ wheel SEMA car), and gave its owner a ride in my car......he started calling mine the monster and begged me to give him another ride.
i just drove a EVO VIII on the street 2 days ago......the evo totally rocks...i'm getting one, the midrange punch and steering, blah, blah, blah is awesome...i could not find anything i didn't like about it..i love the looks. i have driven and considered buying but rejected Z06, Maserati Cambicorsa, Carrera recently, the evo is a better car. do anything possible to drive both cars and pick the one you like best.
05-09-2003, 07:44 PM
#20
Um, Mr. Xpander, snap oversteer is not a "at the limit" characteristic of the S2000, it's an "over the limit" characteristic. With a moderate launch, such as that Scot did with his Evo netted a 13.5 give or take a tenth. A well-driven S2000 can run a 13.9-14.0 at 100. The Evo is trapping 101-104 stock. So, a half second of acceleration is not the end of the world.
Once you start talking mods, I really would NOT trust the Evo over the long turn on a roadcourse with the boost cranked way up. The heat generation will be huge and something will fail over a long, hard lapping session. Maybe not the first time, but you do it consistently, something is going to happen soon enough.
My above paragraph is in response to you, Xpander, thinking that an Evo with the boost cranked so the car will run 12's will be a world-class car on the roadcourse. haha. I really can't wait to run down an Evo on the roadcourse and I assure you, I do plenty of it, so I'll see an Evo soon enough at a driving event here in Dallas/Ft. Worth. I'll let you know how it goes.
Finally, driving hard and driving smart are too different things. If you're frequently snap oversteering your car and have big problems with bump steer, then it's blatantly obvious you're not a smooth driver and have a hard time driving a car AT THE LIMIT of it's performance/adhesion/handling envelope. Also, many people will find an S2000 much more rewarding to drive on a roadcourse because a well-driven one (and I've ridden in plenty, as a matter of fact, I'm taking my C5 to an S2000 club run autocross tomorrow) is very satisfying to a skilled driver.
An AWD Evo will permit a lot of sloppy driving and still be quick. IF that is what you're after, then the Evo will suit you fine. Apparently, you'll need that safety net that AWD provides, especially in that frozen tundra of FL.
Once you start talking mods, I really would NOT trust the Evo over the long turn on a roadcourse with the boost cranked way up. The heat generation will be huge and something will fail over a long, hard lapping session. Maybe not the first time, but you do it consistently, something is going to happen soon enough.
My above paragraph is in response to you, Xpander, thinking that an Evo with the boost cranked so the car will run 12's will be a world-class car on the roadcourse. haha. I really can't wait to run down an Evo on the roadcourse and I assure you, I do plenty of it, so I'll see an Evo soon enough at a driving event here in Dallas/Ft. Worth. I'll let you know how it goes.
Finally, driving hard and driving smart are too different things. If you're frequently snap oversteering your car and have big problems with bump steer, then it's blatantly obvious you're not a smooth driver and have a hard time driving a car AT THE LIMIT of it's performance/adhesion/handling envelope. Also, many people will find an S2000 much more rewarding to drive on a roadcourse because a well-driven one (and I've ridden in plenty, as a matter of fact, I'm taking my C5 to an S2000 club run autocross tomorrow) is very satisfying to a skilled driver.
An AWD Evo will permit a lot of sloppy driving and still be quick. IF that is what you're after, then the Evo will suit you fine. Apparently, you'll need that safety net that AWD provides, especially in that frozen tundra of FL.