View Poll Results: If you had the choice for $32K ?
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Boxster vs S2000 straight up
08-16-2004, 02:47 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by steve c,Aug 14 2004, 08:55 AM
Heh no, but that's cool we can have different opinions.
I think the boxster is a good example of my belief that numbers are not everything when comparing two cars. Handling and the perception of handling are often two very different things.
I think that the driving dynamics of a mid-engine car are inherently better than that of a front engine or rear engine car. The boxster makes a series of compromises that in my view result in a more competent vehicle, more usable torque, a suspension that makes the limit a bit more approachable and yes *gasp* a traction control system for drivers who are perhaps not quite as well trained to approach that limit.
The Boxster is in my view the all around better car -- but how you define better is up for interpretation.
I think the boxster is a good example of my belief that numbers are not everything when comparing two cars. Handling and the perception of handling are often two very different things.
I think that the driving dynamics of a mid-engine car are inherently better than that of a front engine or rear engine car. The boxster makes a series of compromises that in my view result in a more competent vehicle, more usable torque, a suspension that makes the limit a bit more approachable and yes *gasp* a traction control system for drivers who are perhaps not quite as well trained to approach that limit.
The Boxster is in my view the all around better car -- but how you define better is up for interpretation.
08-16-2004, 05:45 PM
#65
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There is no mistake that the base Boxster WILL get spanked on any course or autocross. If you have no experience with autocross or road course, please don't speak out of your ass. Similar lap times?
Just to throw a bit more fuel on the fire, here are some 'numbers' from mags that compared the S2000 and 2.7L Boxster (though this Boxster had the optional 18" wheels and sports suspension package):
Sports Auto: (pro driver behind the wheel)
- 0-60kph = 3.0 vs 3.0sec (S2000 vs Boxster)
- 0-100kph = 6.2 vs 6.4sec (S2000 vs Boxster)
- 0-160kph = 14.8 vs 15.2sec (S2000 vs Boxster)
- 0-200kph = 24.5 vs 26.3sec (S2000 vs Boxster)
- Lap of Nurburgring = 8:39 vs 8:36 (S2000 vs Boxster)
- Lap of Hokenheim KK = 1:18.9 vs 1:19.4 (S2000 vs Boxster)
So yes, the S2000 was quicker, but it was close. It was close in terms of acceleration, and close around the track. 1/2sec aorund a regular length track is not much at all. And not only that, but around Nurburgring the Boxster was quicker ... not by much, but quicker.
The gap between the 2.7L Boxster and S2000 is not that great in terms of perfromance. S2000 should have the edge, but it's not that great. Drive them both and see for yourself.
ps. I'd pick the S2000 over 2.7L Boxster. I prefer the 'raw' nature of the S2000 and also the engine in the S2000 appeals to me more. Besides that the 6-speed gearbox is a big selling poing for me and so is the look. But, despite that I'd say that the Boxster is a better 'car', while the S2000 is a better 'race car'.
Just to throw a bit more fuel on the fire, here are some 'numbers' from mags that compared the S2000 and 2.7L Boxster (though this Boxster had the optional 18" wheels and sports suspension package):
Sports Auto: (pro driver behind the wheel)
- 0-60kph = 3.0 vs 3.0sec (S2000 vs Boxster)
- 0-100kph = 6.2 vs 6.4sec (S2000 vs Boxster)
- 0-160kph = 14.8 vs 15.2sec (S2000 vs Boxster)
- 0-200kph = 24.5 vs 26.3sec (S2000 vs Boxster)
- Lap of Nurburgring = 8:39 vs 8:36 (S2000 vs Boxster)
- Lap of Hokenheim KK = 1:18.9 vs 1:19.4 (S2000 vs Boxster)
So yes, the S2000 was quicker, but it was close. It was close in terms of acceleration, and close around the track. 1/2sec aorund a regular length track is not much at all. And not only that, but around Nurburgring the Boxster was quicker ... not by much, but quicker.
The gap between the 2.7L Boxster and S2000 is not that great in terms of perfromance. S2000 should have the edge, but it's not that great. Drive them both and see for yourself.
ps. I'd pick the S2000 over 2.7L Boxster. I prefer the 'raw' nature of the S2000 and also the engine in the S2000 appeals to me more. Besides that the 6-speed gearbox is a big selling poing for me and so is the look. But, despite that I'd say that the Boxster is a better 'car', while the S2000 is a better 'race car'.
08-16-2004, 07:12 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by PedalFaster,Aug 16 2004, 02:37 PM
What I take issue with is your assertion that the Boxster's "not even close" to the S2000. As I've already said, on average, the S2000's a somewhat faster autocross car in the hands of an experienced driver. On tight courses or with an average driver behind the wheel, I think it would be a driver's race. I would expect an inexperienced driver to go faster in a Boxster.
Your request that I "be decisive" in my answer demonstrates the fundamental flaw of magazine (or, in your case, results-quoting) racing. The truth is nuanced and cannot be reduced to a simple number:
I own an S2000 because, after I totaled my Boxster S at an autocross, I decided that I needed to get into a cheaper car. If money were no object, I'd be in another Boxster S now. Since I autocross at the national level, I'd go for an S2000 over a base Boxster, but that would change if I just ran at the regional level, and could also change if the S2000 goes to AS and leaves the Boxster behind.
I'm amused that you feel your magazine and results reading gives you deeper insight into how the cars compare than those who have actually driven both cars in competition. I'll look forward to seeing you beat all the Boxsters at Nationals next year.
Steve
Your request that I "be decisive" in my answer demonstrates the fundamental flaw of magazine (or, in your case, results-quoting) racing. The truth is nuanced and cannot be reduced to a simple number:
- The S2000 has superior top-end acceleration.
- The Boxster is perceived to have superior low-end grunt, although this has been contested.
- The S2000 transitions extremely well if you can stay on top of the car.
- The Boxster is much more stable than the S2000 in transition.
- The S2000 is one of the hardest Stock class cars to drive at the limit.
- The Boxster is very easy to jump into and drive quickly.
- The S2000 has skinny wheels and consequently suffers in sweepers.
- The Boxster has an inch more front wheel and an inch and a half more rear wheel, and as a result can put much more rubber on the ground.
- The S2000 is among the lightest cars in BS.
- The Boxster, while no heavyweight, is at least a hundred pounds heavier than the S2000 in Stock trim.
I own an S2000 because, after I totaled my Boxster S at an autocross, I decided that I needed to get into a cheaper car. If money were no object, I'd be in another Boxster S now. Since I autocross at the national level, I'd go for an S2000 over a base Boxster, but that would change if I just ran at the regional level, and could also change if the S2000 goes to AS and leaves the Boxster behind.
I'm amused that you feel your magazine and results reading gives you deeper insight into how the cars compare than those who have actually driven both cars in competition. I'll look forward to seeing you beat all the Boxsters at Nationals next year.
Steve
The Boxster and S2000 are direct competitors, both in the showroom and on the auto-x course. The numbers speak for themselves. You can argue this thing until hell freezes over, yet the statistal conclusion will remain. The S2000 is the superior car in nearly all the performance categories and in the majority of national level auto-x competitions. Yes there are outliers, point granted.
Now then, I will stick to my local level autocrosses where I can be king of the hill...occasionally!
I will leave the fancy racing to the fancy racers. From one auto-x'er to another...Go get 'em. 
08-16-2004, 08:10 PM
#67
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Nice to see a decently civil argument. Axel6, you should come on down to the NNJ events at e-town. We've now got 2 boxsters in competition down there . You've got to see one of them to believe how fast it is. The 3 fastest autocrossed S2000s in NJ are down there (I'm unfortunately not one of them) one on this board and 2, I dunno. All 3 run tour events and 2 of the 3 run yearly at Topeka (with trophies as high as 2nd place in this year's DC tour). One of the Boxter drivers runs neck and neck with the 2nd place DC tour competitor EVERY time he shows - and it's not his car.
This of course supports neither argument, as the tour competitor was unfortunately not in the trophys at last years Nationals - which only goes to show that judging much from local events leaves much to be desired! Ohh, and I believe I've run against you once at Giants stadium much earlier this year.
. You've got to see one of them to believe how fast it is. The 3 fastest autocrossed S2000s in NJ are down there (I'm unfortunately not one of them) one on this board and 2, I dunno. All 3 run tour events and 2 of the 3 run yearly at Topeka (with trophies as high as 2nd place in this year's DC tour). One of the Boxter drivers runs neck and neck with the 2nd place DC tour competitor EVERY time he shows - and it's not his car.This of course supports neither argument, as the tour competitor was unfortunately not in the trophys at last years Nationals - which only goes to show that judging much from local events leaves much to be desired! Ohh, and I believe I've run against you once at Giants stadium much earlier this year.
08-17-2004, 08:09 AM
#69
Registered User
For some odd reason I thought that I had a NNJ event this weekend. I'd sure like to come on Friday, so if I get some things wrapped up at work I'm gonna show. Also want to go do the BMW event in LI on Saturday. I just did an EVO P1 & II school and need to work on some of the areas pointed out to me. I've got a lot of years of bad habits to erase so my results are likely to be p!ss poor for a while.
Don't know about that trophy stuff, one of the NASA events that I checked the results of recently showed you as FTD or close to that i believe.
The great thing about e-town (and you would know this) is the competition in BS. It's the most competitive BS in NJ/NYC. And so as to be on topic, One Boxster is insanely quick (check results and look for Adam M) and the other driver is just getting some r-comps and was quick in his STS car before. I look forward
to falling down the ranks with NJTom just getting faster and faster.
I ended up buying an S2000 over a Boxster because I just thought you were paying to much for slighly less performace in the Boxster - specifically on an autocross course. I love Porsches however so you'll never find me bashing them. And after sitting in one at NE Divisionals - it's got our interior beat hands down.
Don't know about that trophy stuff, one of the NASA events that I checked the results of recently showed you as FTD or close to that i believe.
The great thing about e-town (and you would know this) is the competition in BS. It's the most competitive BS in NJ/NYC. And so as to be on topic, One Boxster is insanely quick (check results and look for Adam M) and the other driver is just getting some r-comps and was quick in his STS car before. I look forward
to falling down the ranks with NJTom just getting faster and faster.I ended up buying an S2000 over a Boxster because I just thought you were paying to much for slighly less performace in the Boxster - specifically on an autocross course. I love Porsches however so you'll never find me bashing them. And after sitting in one at NE Divisionals - it's got our interior beat hands down.
08-17-2004, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by vroom,Aug 17 2004, 08:09 AM
Don't know about that trophy stuff, one of the NASA events that I checked the results of recently showed you as FTD or close to that i believe.
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I love Porsches however so you'll never find me bashing them.
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I love Porsches however so you'll never find me bashing them.
I hope my posts did not come across as Porsche bashing. I really like Porsche's and would actually consider getting the new 997, although I would get my ass handed in A-Class. My point was that IMO, lb. for lb., the S2000 is a better auto-x performer as well as overall performer. That is simply my estimation. The Boxster 'S' however, would earn my money.
See ya soon.