BMW M2
04-15-2016, 08:46 AM
#91
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by s.hasan546' timestamp='1460736580' post='23939119
you guys realize this is a M2 thread right? No one gives a shit about a camaro. Maybe the m3/m4 is a good comparison but camaro... really?
You want to outrun Roscoe P. Coltrane, you're going to need the Camaro SS in all it's mullet glory and you're going to need to pass on the Bavarian red-headed illegitimate M-child from an old WW2-era orphanage.
04-15-2016, 08:48 AM
#92
Originally Posted by s.hasan546' timestamp='1460736580' post='23939119
you guys realize this is a M2 thread right? No one gives a shit about a camaro. Maybe the m3/m4 is a good comparison but camaro... really?
You want to outrun Roscoe P. Coltrane, you're going to need the Camaro SS in all it's mullet glory and you're going to need to pass on the Bavarian red-headed illegitimate M-child from an old WW2-era orphanage.
04-15-2016, 08:51 AM
#93
hooch1
/ho͞oCH/
noun
informal
noun: hooch; noun: hootch
alcoholic liquor, especially inferior or illicit whiskey.
AKA Moonshine
/ho͞oCH/
noun
informal
noun: hooch; noun: hootch
alcoholic liquor, especially inferior or illicit whiskey.
AKA Moonshine
04-15-2016, 11:08 AM
#95
Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.' timestamp='1460580527' post='23937273
Right. I'm saying that they are "the same car" enough that all of the supposed differences that Cosmos is pointing to are attributable to the stuff that's swappable between the two. Not that it's as simple as changing out some control arms.
We're not talking about a Civic vs. an S2000, here. It's more like a base 911 compared to a 911 GT3. Despite their differences, it's silly to that a regular 911 is somehow a totally different car than a 911 GT3.
We're not talking about a Civic vs. an S2000, here. It's more like a base 911 compared to a 911 GT3. Despite their differences, it's silly to that a regular 911 is somehow a totally different car than a 911 GT3.
That's not a great analogy. The M3 is WAAAAAAAY more closely related to the 3 that ATS and Camaro are related. If you said that the 6 series and the 5 series are different cars, I'd agree with you. They clearly are built on the same underpinnings, but they are way too different to be considered the same car.
The 3 series / M3 are not two cars built on a shared architecture. They are literally the same car, only one has upgraded stuff.
By your logic the C6 Gransport and the C6 Z06 aren't the same cars. I mean, after all, the Z06 has an aluminum chassis instead of steel, different fenders, a different engine, ergo it's a different model of car. You see what I'm getting at?
I'm not trying to be a jerk or bust your chops, but while they may not be the same car hyperbolically, they most certainly are enough of the same that, for all intents and purposes, they're the same car.
04-15-2016, 11:10 AM
#96
Originally Posted by QUIKAG' timestamp='1460727878' post='23938964
[quote name='CosmosMpower' timestamp='1460727097' post='23938953']
[quote name='Chris Stack' timestamp='1460666040' post='23938370']
Seriously dude? It's the same damn car with an upgraded drivetrain. Is your ego really this fragile that you have a hard time with that?
[quote name='Chris Stack' timestamp='1460666040' post='23938370']
Seriously dude? It's the same damn car with an upgraded drivetrain. Is your ego really this fragile that you have a hard time with that?
Both BMW and GM LOVE, LOVE, LOVE people that go for the higher trim models as the profit margins get pretty substantial. Biggest example most likely is comparing a base GM pick-up truck versus an Escalade. A lot of the chassis and hardware is similar, but an Escalade can bang $100k and a base truck is $30k or so. Obviously a ton of trim, body, interior, and other stuff, but not $70k worth.
[/quote]
Base 320i is 35K, base M3 is 63K so it's only a 28K difference not 45K. The only body panels shared on a 3 series and a M3 are the doors and trunk, on the M4 even the trunk isn't shared with the 4 series. The front bumper, front fenders, roof, rear quarter panel, rear bumper, sideskirts are all different. I agree higher model cars do bring higher profit margins because there's more room due to the higher price but there's still a ton of additional R&D and manufacturing/tooling costs when you redesign just about all the major components in the car.
[/quote]
#headdesk
04-15-2016, 12:23 PM
#97
Registered User
BMW is very good at making the same car and calling it something different by adding badges, seats, lsd, etc...but the M cars are different. Ask any BMW fanboy and they will gladly tell you the difference. And massaging a 335i (which I currently drive the m sport line myself) does not an M car make.
Currently the M2 is a very stripped down version of a 3 series, with some M bits, a massaged 335I motor, and lacks quite a few things you can get in another offered M car, most importantly to me is the option of a 4 door sedan with a fold down rear seat and decent trunk and back seat, the M programmable buttons, state of the art German engineering, a total package from the factory , a year of sat radio, and that wonderful sound(s), and some options not offered in other cars by BMW.
BMW is smart in the way they price these things....base price and a boatload of options, make the car unavailable to most people by restricting how many they make and give to dealers, it's a gift to them to sell them as they don't have to discount much to move them.
BMW also starts off ok then when you add the things you want (options) you then are in the higher end, no doubt, compared to most other cars with sporting pretensions. It appears this thinking about pricing has caught on.
i enjoy my 335i m sportline, with all it's little quasi m bits and trim, it's a nice car in need of some traditional BMW tuning...like throttle maps, suspension, rear end, and that stupid sub frame bushing thing that helps it float allot. It's a near miss of an M car and it's a nice car that is leaving my care now for an M3.
the M235i is the same thing, with a quasi m badge and a few odd handing and turne bits. A nice car, small and sporty and quick for what it is.
the m2 takes it a notch up in many regards and is very sought after and hard to find, spec it out and you are soooo close to m3 territory it hurts.
The m3, which I have on order, with a proper manual gearbox as God intended it to have is the real deal....state of the art m car in every way shape and form, able to keep up with most things Germany and the Us and or course Japan have to offer. Drive it side by side with a past m car and you can see where they took this , always up a notch or two, from 4 cyl, to straight six, to v8 to straight six double tap turbo...all the way to 425 hp with the m button becomes 444 hp. n 0-60 in the three second range, quarter mile in the 12 second range....keeping up with a carerra or a corvette, very close to a purpose built sports car in terms of performance.
the m4 is the same deal, for more $$ with less doors.
The M car is a car you can drive your kids to school with, commute in traffic, take a long trip in total comfort, style, and speed with decent mpg for a 400 plus hp performance car and if you wish....take it bone stock to the track and have a blast...the same can be said for the other BMWs mentioned here, but it's not the same, the feeling, the look, the subtle style, the part of BMW history, the car everyone compares to everything, usually with more cylinders. And compared to some it's a bargain SUPERCAR.
the m2 is just the little brother like the m5 is the bigger brother.....all good stuff at a price point, but not assembly line autos with just a few things tacked on....no offense to anyone who has a m sportline 3 series or m235i.
Currently the M2 is a very stripped down version of a 3 series, with some M bits, a massaged 335I motor, and lacks quite a few things you can get in another offered M car, most importantly to me is the option of a 4 door sedan with a fold down rear seat and decent trunk and back seat, the M programmable buttons, state of the art German engineering, a total package from the factory , a year of sat radio, and that wonderful sound(s), and some options not offered in other cars by BMW.
BMW is smart in the way they price these things....base price and a boatload of options, make the car unavailable to most people by restricting how many they make and give to dealers, it's a gift to them to sell them as they don't have to discount much to move them.
BMW also starts off ok then when you add the things you want (options) you then are in the higher end, no doubt, compared to most other cars with sporting pretensions. It appears this thinking about pricing has caught on.
i enjoy my 335i m sportline, with all it's little quasi m bits and trim, it's a nice car in need of some traditional BMW tuning...like throttle maps, suspension, rear end, and that stupid sub frame bushing thing that helps it float allot. It's a near miss of an M car and it's a nice car that is leaving my care now for an M3.
the M235i is the same thing, with a quasi m badge and a few odd handing and turne bits. A nice car, small and sporty and quick for what it is.
the m2 takes it a notch up in many regards and is very sought after and hard to find, spec it out and you are soooo close to m3 territory it hurts.
The m3, which I have on order, with a proper manual gearbox as God intended it to have is the real deal....state of the art m car in every way shape and form, able to keep up with most things Germany and the Us and or course Japan have to offer. Drive it side by side with a past m car and you can see where they took this , always up a notch or two, from 4 cyl, to straight six, to v8 to straight six double tap turbo...all the way to 425 hp with the m button becomes 444 hp. n 0-60 in the three second range, quarter mile in the 12 second range....keeping up with a carerra or a corvette, very close to a purpose built sports car in terms of performance.
the m4 is the same deal, for more $$ with less doors.
The M car is a car you can drive your kids to school with, commute in traffic, take a long trip in total comfort, style, and speed with decent mpg for a 400 plus hp performance car and if you wish....take it bone stock to the track and have a blast...the same can be said for the other BMWs mentioned here, but it's not the same, the feeling, the look, the subtle style, the part of BMW history, the car everyone compares to everything, usually with more cylinders. And compared to some it's a bargain SUPERCAR.
the m2 is just the little brother like the m5 is the bigger brother.....all good stuff at a price point, but not assembly line autos with just a few things tacked on....no offense to anyone who has a m sportline 3 series or m235i.
04-15-2016, 12:43 PM
#98
BMW is very good at making the same car and calling it something different by adding badges, seats, lsd, etc...but the M cars are different. Ask any BMW fanboy and they will gladly tell you the difference. And massaging a 335i (which I currently drive the m sport line myself) does not an M car make.
Currently the M2 is a very stripped down version of a 3 series, with some M bits, a massaged 335I motor, and lacks quite a few things you can get in another offered M car, most importantly to me is the option of a 4 door sedan with a fold down rear seat and decent trunk and back seat, the M programmable buttons, state of the art German engineering, a total package from the factory , a year of sat radio, and that wonderful sound(s), and some options not offered in other cars by BMW.
BMW is smart in the way they price these things....base price and a boatload of options, make the car unavailable to most people by restricting how many they make and give to dealers, it's a gift to them to sell them as they don't have to discount much to move them.
BMW also starts off ok then when you add the things you want (options) you then are in the higher end, no doubt, compared to most other cars with sporting pretensions. It appears this thinking about pricing has caught on.
i enjoy my 335i m sportline, with all it's little quasi m bits and trim, it's a nice car in need of some traditional BMW tuning...like throttle maps, suspension, rear end, and that stupid sub frame bushing thing that helps it float allot. It's a near miss of an M car and it's a nice car that is leaving my care now for an M3.
the M235i is the same thing, with a quasi m badge and a few odd handing and turne bits. A nice car, small and sporty and quick for what it is.
the m2 takes it a notch up in many regards and is very sought after and hard to find, spec it out and you are soooo close to m3 territory it hurts.
The m3, which I have on order, with a proper manual gearbox as God intended it to have is the real deal....state of the art m car in every way shape and form, able to keep up with most things Germany and the Us and or course Japan have to offer. Drive it side by side with a past m car and you can see where they took this , always up a notch or two, from 4 cyl, to straight six, to v8 to straight six double tap turbo...all the way to 425 hp with the m button becomes 444 hp. n 0-60 in the three second range, quarter mile in the 12 second range....keeping up with a carerra or a corvette, very close to a purpose built sports car in terms of performance.
the m4 is the same deal, for more $$ with less doors.
The M car is a car you can drive your kids to school with, commute in traffic, take a long trip in total comfort, style, and speed with decent mpg for a 400 plus hp performance car and if you wish....take it bone stock to the track and have a blast...the same can be said for the other BMWs mentioned here, but it's not the same, the feeling, the look, the subtle style, the part of BMW history, the car everyone compares to everything, usually with more cylinders. And compared to some it's a bargain SUPERCAR.
the m2 is just the little brother like the m5 is the bigger brother.....all good stuff at a price point, but not assembly line autos with just a few things tacked on....no offense to anyone who has a m sportline 3 series or m235i.
Currently the M2 is a very stripped down version of a 3 series, with some M bits, a massaged 335I motor, and lacks quite a few things you can get in another offered M car, most importantly to me is the option of a 4 door sedan with a fold down rear seat and decent trunk and back seat, the M programmable buttons, state of the art German engineering, a total package from the factory , a year of sat radio, and that wonderful sound(s), and some options not offered in other cars by BMW.
BMW is smart in the way they price these things....base price and a boatload of options, make the car unavailable to most people by restricting how many they make and give to dealers, it's a gift to them to sell them as they don't have to discount much to move them.
BMW also starts off ok then when you add the things you want (options) you then are in the higher end, no doubt, compared to most other cars with sporting pretensions. It appears this thinking about pricing has caught on.
i enjoy my 335i m sportline, with all it's little quasi m bits and trim, it's a nice car in need of some traditional BMW tuning...like throttle maps, suspension, rear end, and that stupid sub frame bushing thing that helps it float allot. It's a near miss of an M car and it's a nice car that is leaving my care now for an M3.
the M235i is the same thing, with a quasi m badge and a few odd handing and turne bits. A nice car, small and sporty and quick for what it is.
the m2 takes it a notch up in many regards and is very sought after and hard to find, spec it out and you are soooo close to m3 territory it hurts.
The m3, which I have on order, with a proper manual gearbox as God intended it to have is the real deal....state of the art m car in every way shape and form, able to keep up with most things Germany and the Us and or course Japan have to offer. Drive it side by side with a past m car and you can see where they took this , always up a notch or two, from 4 cyl, to straight six, to v8 to straight six double tap turbo...all the way to 425 hp with the m button becomes 444 hp. n 0-60 in the three second range, quarter mile in the 12 second range....keeping up with a carerra or a corvette, very close to a purpose built sports car in terms of performance.
the m4 is the same deal, for more $$ with less doors.
The M car is a car you can drive your kids to school with, commute in traffic, take a long trip in total comfort, style, and speed with decent mpg for a 400 plus hp performance car and if you wish....take it bone stock to the track and have a blast...the same can be said for the other BMWs mentioned here, but it's not the same, the feeling, the look, the subtle style, the part of BMW history, the car everyone compares to everything, usually with more cylinders. And compared to some it's a bargain SUPERCAR.
the m2 is just the little brother like the m5 is the bigger brother.....all good stuff at a price point, but not assembly line autos with just a few things tacked on....no offense to anyone who has a m sportline 3 series or m235i.
hahahaha.....how does that Kool-Aid taste, hirev? You start off by mildly mocking BMW for their branding of the different models and then you quickly transition your essay and acknowledge you've gone full hook, line, and sinker into a new M3 and saying it's just dramatically different than any other BMW or non-M. It has that magic M ingredient. Actually M may stand for MAGICAL. Non TRUE M cars don't get that MMMMM....yum....
Actually, the M3 is a bargain SUPERCAR!!! Didn't you know?
04-15-2016, 12:51 PM
#99
Registered User
i see it for what it is and I buy into it as the only game in town I would want to play. Drive one of these things, maybe the last one with the v8 and tell me it's just marketing and smoke and mirrors, drive a new one compared to the 335i and tell me the same thing, if it's cool aide then so be it, we are all entitled to our opinions.
04-15-2016, 01:42 PM
#100
I have driven and ridden in an E92 M3 and it's AWESOME. I have little doubt the new M3's are awesome too (besides the engine sound). I do agree it's one of the best balanced and practical truly fast 4-door sedans on the market. You're going to love it! 