Fanman

I saw the 760Li introduction and the horsepower on the 6.0L V-12 will be 430 hp. While very nice the Mercedes S55 will show it's tail lights to the 760 with 493 hp, 516lb.-ft. or the the S600 with 493 hp, and 590 lb. ft. The 760Li will cost "well over $100K." That's S55 territory. The 745Li has 330hp vs. the S500 with 302hp. Just disappointing that BMW would give up so much to the MBZ. I wonder why they didn't incoporate the V-10 from the new M5 supposedly good for 500hp-550hp. Also the new MBZ V6 engine will be the 3.7 liter with better hp & torque figure than the current I6 in the BMW (Which pretty much is getting outclassed by the Acura Type S engine, Infiniti VQ engine, etc). BMW needs to upgrade it's product line.

94NSX

2 words: Chris...Bangle.

Did they get rid of him yet?!
I'm still upset about the current 7 series.

r6e36

I never heard anyone praising a S class for it's handling. While everyone praises the 7 series for hadling better than any car of it's size has right to.
Just like old Pirelli ad said: "Power is nothing without control"
A Merceded is nice... If I wanted to be drive in one.

Fanman

Actually the new S class handles quite nicely if it has their new Active Body Control System. It is a very expensive option on the S500's (very few people get this) but is standard on the S55. The magazines say it is one of the best body/skid suspension control units on the market currently. Most S500 owners value supple ride vs. handling. I have driven the new S55, she is a beaut. Handles way better than I thought a beast like that ever could. I drove the 745 i as well. With 19", and she handled well too. Personally I liked the old 740 IL Sport better. I love bMW, just lately all there new introductions have been uninspiring to say the least.

ultimate lurker

Perhaps BMW has decided that trying to be first in the power wars simply isn't worth it. In some respects, BMW is a bit like Honda that way. Neither one is going to set the world alight with huge power levels, in part because they choose to use normally aspirated engines (due, in no small part I'm sure, to the fact that NA engines are usually far better for the driving experience, especially balancing a car in the corners).

Honestly, does the difference between 440 and 500 hp really mean anything? The ability to use that sort of power is almost non-existent with the exception of passing on the autobahn. I think that too much power is just enough, but if the BMW offered a better driving experience, I don't think the extra hp in the Benz would sway me (oh to have such a problem :-).

There is a reason (valid IMO) that some people think the Miata is just about perfect in all respects. You can use every bit of its power frequently, and for long durations, in daily driving. You cannot say the same about the S2000, M3, Corvette, etc. I wouldn't trade my S2000, in part because I like track time, and you can never have too much power there. But when it comes to ultra luxury sedans, how many will ever see track time?

UL

E46-Pyellow

its two diff. car, the 760LI is a Long version of the 7series and S55 is an AMG. How can you put an AMG vs. an Non-M BMW? Every M outperforms the AMG in its own class.

well just my .02

Jack

Fanman

The reason I compare the 760 Li with the S55 AMG, is they are the approximate price of $110K. I have not heard of an M version of the 7 series. The S600 (V12 but with twin turbos) is quite a bit more expensive, but would absolutely slaughter the 760 Li ( S600 = 493 hp, 590 lb. ft. tq). Even the new AMG has 469 hp the M5 395 hp (though new one is coming). Traditionally the M cars have been the sportier of the two, it's just this adherence to NA engines is making the BMW's fall behind the MBZ in straight line power & performance.

JonBoy

I think that BMW sells its cars not because they are the most powerful, but often because they offer the best driving experience AND they tend to drive as if they've got more power under the hood.

Think about it - they're using a 225hp I6 in their three series and it's a fairly quick car, far quicker than cars that are pushing out 250 or 260 hp in the same class (G35 Sedan, TL-S, etc, etc). The E36 M3 was a seriously fast car for "only" 240hp.

I think UL has it about right - they're not going to get into a power war with anyone. They know what they build, they know how they want to build it, and chances are that (aside from an occasional vehicle), they'll continue to build as they always have. In short, powerful (but not TOO powerful), nice looking (well, until Chris Bangle came along), great driving machines that reward a DRIVER, not a person that just steers the car.

That said, I can't wait to see how the V10 M5 handles the competition.

alexf20c

When my dad gets his new car (E55) and it's properly broken in, we're definitely taking it for some hot laps at TWS. But true, 469hp is rarely (if ever) fully exploitable in daily driving. Excessive use of the throttle pedal and you may be regularly accused of hooliganism.

I liken ultra-powerful sedans (E55/M5/RS6/S55) to SUVs in that a Z71 Tahoe will likely see no more mud than some runoff from a construction site; the 4WD option on a Vue is merely to have it - if you really needed 4WD, you wouldn't be driving a Saturn.

As for the E55: MY dad doesn't want the hastle of a manual 'box. (If he wants to shift the gears himself, he'll drive my car or one of his many others.) So the M5 is out of the question, as is the new RS6 - my dad hates AWD with a passion. So until the E60 M5 (5.0 V-10, right?) comes out, I'll have to settle with the E55... I'll have to settle with the E55. No matter how many times I say that, it just doesn't sound right.


But UL and JonBoy are spot on. BMW and Honda aren't in it for the power, they're in it for the experience. Names like NSX-R and CSL come to mind.

rai

Not here in the good OLD USA. We get the max pork M3 because american's want comfort over all else. At least that's what BMW is making it's it's money on.

Also I haven't seen a lot of NSX-R's on the streets either.