BMW 3 series
04-11-2024, 07:17 AM
#11
I won't argue against the notion of CUVs dominate the market, but I will say that alot of car styles or its features (manual) has alot to do with OEMs making errors and then blaming the market for said errors.
The 3 series is huge, to the point you can draw more similarities to its CUV stablemates vs the E30. So by making it huge, they robbed the essence of what made them desireable in the first place, fun to drive, and made them more like its CUV competition which does the comfort and practicality thing better.
BMW is now doing the same thing with the 1M/M2 which were largely successful and desireable. But now the latest iteration is essentially a 3/4 series. It takes a while for the general populace to realize what we as discerning enthusiasts already know- it's too big, and therefore no desireable, and once it gets out that it's no longer an object of desire, well then suddenly people will want it less.
Sedans are actually desirable, even if they're not in higher demand than a CUV, bottom line is that they are desireable. I read an article that CUVs are viewed as parents/uber vehicles, and therefore sedans are gaining in desirability.
People will say it's crash regulations, etc that's killing the fun factor and making everything into a bloated jelly bean. I call BS, it's overly conservative, untalented execs leaning on focus groups to make their decisions.
Imo, BMW should've stubbornly not compromised on the driving quality of at least the 3 and 5 series, hallmark models in their lineup, and use their vast CUV lineup to appeal to the masses and keep the lights on. If Mazda can make a business case for a niche, low profitm, tiny two seat roadster Miata, surely BMW could make a business case for keeping the 4 door sedan 3 Series underweight/sized.
Especially now that you could buy a Model 3 for less money and drag it, the 3 series needs to do more to differentiate itself from EVs.
Just look at their historical models and see which ones are still commanding strong resale prices. It's not the M5s, or M6s, it's the older, smaller, M3s. The 1M and M2C were a hit because it reminded people of the smaller 3 series of the past. The current M3 is more E39/E60 M5 than it is E36 M3.
I don't get it, I understand that if you only made one car, I get the draw to make it bigger, because it will appeal to more people. But you got the 3, 5, and 7 series. The 3 series does not need to keep growing, you have a 5 series for that, and then a 7 series.
The 3 series is huge, to the point you can draw more similarities to its CUV stablemates vs the E30. So by making it huge, they robbed the essence of what made them desireable in the first place, fun to drive, and made them more like its CUV competition which does the comfort and practicality thing better.
BMW is now doing the same thing with the 1M/M2 which were largely successful and desireable. But now the latest iteration is essentially a 3/4 series. It takes a while for the general populace to realize what we as discerning enthusiasts already know- it's too big, and therefore no desireable, and once it gets out that it's no longer an object of desire, well then suddenly people will want it less.
Sedans are actually desirable, even if they're not in higher demand than a CUV, bottom line is that they are desireable. I read an article that CUVs are viewed as parents/uber vehicles, and therefore sedans are gaining in desirability.
People will say it's crash regulations, etc that's killing the fun factor and making everything into a bloated jelly bean. I call BS, it's overly conservative, untalented execs leaning on focus groups to make their decisions.
Imo, BMW should've stubbornly not compromised on the driving quality of at least the 3 and 5 series, hallmark models in their lineup, and use their vast CUV lineup to appeal to the masses and keep the lights on. If Mazda can make a business case for a niche, low profitm, tiny two seat roadster Miata, surely BMW could make a business case for keeping the 4 door sedan 3 Series underweight/sized.
Especially now that you could buy a Model 3 for less money and drag it, the 3 series needs to do more to differentiate itself from EVs.
Just look at their historical models and see which ones are still commanding strong resale prices. It's not the M5s, or M6s, it's the older, smaller, M3s. The 1M and M2C were a hit because it reminded people of the smaller 3 series of the past. The current M3 is more E39/E60 M5 than it is E36 M3.
I don't get it, I understand that if you only made one car, I get the draw to make it bigger, because it will appeal to more people. But you got the 3, 5, and 7 series. The 3 series does not need to keep growing, you have a 5 series for that, and then a 7 series.
Honestly, the last 3 Series I had any interest in was the E90/92. The styling direction of the F30 was horrible IMO, and the handling reviews (especially for the M3) were very disappointing. By all accounts the handling (and steering, to a degree) has been improved since, but overall the car just exudes a heavy heavy dose of banality.
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TheDonEffect (04-11-2024)
04-11-2024, 07:55 AM
#12
And gained about 700lbs in the process, electric steering, no more NA engine, etc etc. Also, 8" for a vehicle is very significant, for instance, the difference in length between a 1999 Honda Civic coupe and a 1999 Honda CRV is 2 inches, and 9 inches if you compare it to a 2024 Honda CRV. So you're almost comparing a 99 Civic Coupe to a 24 CRV in terms of size gain. As with anything else, you add an inch here and there and the overall impact is significant.
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Saki GT (04-18-2024)
04-11-2024, 08:48 AM
#13
Site Moderator
And gained about 700lbs in the process, electric steering, no more NA engine, etc etc. Also, 8" for a vehicle is very significant, for instance, the difference in length between a 1999 Honda Civic coupe and a 1999 Honda CRV is 2 inches, and 9 inches if you compare it to a 2024 Honda CRV. So you're almost comparing a 99 Civic Coupe to a 24 CRV in terms of size gain. As with anything else, you add an inch here and there and the overall impact is significant.
Civic, yes absolutely has got too big. I'm surprised a Civic isn't longer than a CRV if I'm honest.
04-11-2024, 09:28 AM
#14
The current M3 weighs about 3900lbs. 3900lbs, and it isn't even AWD or hybrid.
Last edited by TheDonEffect; 04-11-2024 at 09:30 AM.
04-11-2024, 11:56 AM
#15
Thread Starter
I am sorry, I got that wrong. Minnesota. We changed the law last year so the first year registration would be 1.575% of the MSRP, including options. Take an average $85k M3 and you get $1,338 and not $1,280. Then it drops to $850 the second year, then $800 the third year, etc for ten years until it is down to under $40 when older than 10 years. But it is on a wacky, top loaded depreciation schedule that scalps you on new cars. All told, you would pay nearly $4500 just to REGISTER the vehicle for the first four years. Don't confuse that with the $5,700 sales tax when you purchase. So about ten grand in tax to own one for four years here. I don't know how that compares to other states, but we are far from the cheapest. Our neighboring state, Wisconsin I think has a flat fee to register of $85 even for new cars.
Last edited by vader1; 04-11-2024 at 12:05 PM.
04-11-2024, 12:01 PM
#16
Thread Starter
It is under 4000 pounds, so it has that going for it.
04-11-2024, 02:31 PM
#17
Site Moderator
I am sorry, I got that wrong. Minnesota. We changed the law last year so the first year registration would be 1.575% of the MSRP, including options. Take an average $85k M3 and you get $1,338 and not $1,280. Then it drops to $850 the second year, then $800 the third year, etc for ten years until it is down to under $40 when older than 10 years. But it is on a wacky, top loaded depreciation schedule that scalps you on new cars. All told, you would pay nearly $4500 just to REGISTER the vehicle for the first four years. Don't confuse that with the $5,700 sales tax when you purchase. So about ten grand in tax to own one for four years here. I don't know how that compares to other states, but we are far from the cheapest. Our neighboring state, Wisconsin I think has a flat fee to register of $85 even for new cars.
04-11-2024, 02:33 PM
#18
Site Moderator
Yep, everything is heavier these days, but the horsepower has increased along with it, so it doesn’t bother me much. Don’t think an awd 3 series was a thing back in 2000 though, at least not the norm it is now.
04-12-2024, 03:00 PM
#19
Oh and how I hate them. I don’t even like riding in them. What a joke of a vehicle and they are the most popular thing in the US. Shows you how much taste they have. At the same time they hate on, big time, the minivan. If I needed the room that these people claim to need, a minivan, would be the go to. They are AWD now, and have pretty good power for what they are. If you are shuffling people around, ferrying them, nothing beats that electronic sliding door. I actually try to choose them for Uber rides to the airport when I go out of town. If the AWD Sprinter didn’t cost 60k, I’d trade the truck in on one. Truck = trailer. Cargo Van I can install some permanent chocks in the back for my motorcycles. Wish there was more competition in this space but Murica = image over substance.
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FearlessFife (04-13-2024)
04-13-2024, 02:38 AM
#20
Community Organizer
Oh and how I hate them. I don’t even like riding in them. What a joke of a vehicle and they are the most popular thing in the US. Shows you how much taste they have. At the same time they hate on, big time, the minivan. If I needed the room that these people claim to need, a minivan, would be the go to. They are AWD now, and have pretty good power for what they are. If you are shuffling people around, ferrying them, nothing beats that electronic sliding door. I actually try to choose them for Uber rides to the airport when I go out of town. If the AWD Sprinter didn’t cost 60k, I’d trade the truck in on one. Truck = trailer. Cargo Van I can install some permanent chocks in the back for my motorcycles. Wish there was more competition in this space but Murica = image over substance.
