ZDan

I'd hardly call ~3000 lb. "lightweight" for a 2-seat sports car!

Used to be, Corvettes were ungodly huge and overweight for a sports car. Unfortunately the rest of the world went strongly in the Corvette direction...

Not that I have anything against them, but I do wish there were a lot more smaller/lighterweight sports cars on the market that emphasized fun over outright horsepower and bragging rights.

IMO, 911 should be less than 3000 lb. and Boxster/Cayman should be closer to 2500. *AND* Porsche should be doing a car like the Elise rather than 5000+ lb. SUV's and ubersedans.

rant off...

shyong

BMW are for rich people? Come on, dude. To say it's not for enthusiasts is generalizing things. I'm not too crazy about Bimmers but you gotta give them credit for combining performance and luxury in a good package.

I too ride sportbikes...don't know where you got "well under $10g" from unless you're buying used. Bike prices have gone up over the last 5 years. You can't even touch liter bikes for no less than $13,500. Hell, 600's cost as much as liter bikes 5 years ago. And for anyone under 25 years of age, with less than perfect driving record, total cost of ownership on a liter bike can be cost prohibitive.

In some aspects, you have to be "rich" to ride legit, with making no compromises, when it comes to riding a sportbike. It's a luxury when you associate all the costs involved (i.e. gear, full insurance, garaging it, quicker diminshables, etc).

secondreality

A new 135i is the same price as a new Evo X / STI / lightly optioned Mustang GT / lightly optioned Camaro SS and is loads more comfortable.

Reliability is the only reason I am not driving a BMW 135i or M3 right now, I really think they have fair prices when compared to everything else out there. Hell, a new top end Hyundai Genesis STARTS at 42k!

Also I hear that those sport bikes have trouble driving friends around, as well as these things called 'rain' and 'snow.' Stupid comparison. Every vehicle loses money unless you hold onto it for 30 years and it becomes a classic.

rnye

And ends there. There are no options. Its fully loaded. $43,000.

For 2012 the Genesis sedan is receiving a mild update with a 400+HP V8, 8 speed tranny and styling tweaks. Should be hot. The same value obviously cannot/will not be had with the German competitors.

Chris S

Pretty sweeping generalization there, eh? I didn't realize I was rich, nor did I realize I'm an enthusiast. Being a car enthusiast at almost any level will somehow impact you financially, it's just a matter of how deep you can afford to get into it. I spend more on my Miata than on my M3.

Re: sportbikes, been there, done that. I've had many sportbikes, and used to roadrace. I still have a KTM Super Duke, which is a hoot, but it was 28 deg. on my way to work today. Nor can I transport my kid to childcare on it. Not to mention, I just no longer feel safe riding the streets in a spirited manner, and riding slow just isn't that much fun...which is why I ride/race dirtbikes instead.

secondreality

[QUOTE=rnye,Jan 11 2011, 07:18 AM] And ends there.

Chris S

The Cayman IMO feels lighter than it is due to mass centralization. It's light on its feet, agile, and one of the best handling cars on the market at any price. For all but a dedicated track car, it's a far superior choice to an Elise/Exige in the real world, esp. if crashing is involved.

How do you expect the market to respond to your wishes when you don't put your money where your mouth is? Buy a Lotus, Rossion, or MX-5 if you want to encourage more lightweight cars. Bottom line is that it's increasingly difficult w/ safety and emissions reqs., not to mention the creature comforts expected when you pay up for an expensive sports car.

JonBoy

Baloney. A base EVO X GSR or STi will be roughly $34K (MSRP) from a dealer while a base 135i is $37K and has virtually no options. The M Sport package is another $1300 so you're at roughly $38.5K for a "similar" car to the others. Heck, a Mustang GT is virtually fully loaded at that price and you can buy an Evo X MR for that price as well (with the trick dual-clutch transmission, which would add another $1575 to the 135i).

secondreality

I got a near fully loaded 135i offer sheet (including the DCT and M package, keyless, auto seats, ipod which is now standard) for 40k from the dealer - building on the website, and adding destination was 42k, so they would move ~2k from MSRP. I also did the same for an Evo X MR, and that was 38k and they wouldn't go lower. I can give you the sales rep for each, but it certainly isn't baloney.

The 2011 STI sedan, at least where I am at, is being marked up to 38k as well, with the hatch being around 35k. I don't know if they will move on it as I never seriously considered getting one, I was just talking to the salesmen while I was getting an oil change on my 06 STI.

And I mentioned that the GT was fully loaded for ~40k, no disagreement there.

A 'base' 135i has quite a few options though, seeing as it has nice leather standard among other things. The Evo X MR has no trunk and an interior that is behind a 2005 BMW, much less a 2011, same with the STI.

EDIT: I noticed you said the Evo GSR - they wanted 37k for that sticker w/ premium sound, sub, etc but it still felt like crap on the inside, night and day difference to the 135i.

EDIT 2: Also at the time BMW was doing 0.9% on 3 years and 1.9% on 5, while Audi/Mitsu quoted me market rate due to no special deals going on.

CosmosMpower

If Porsche's built cars like the Elise, instead of their SUV's they would be out of business....

The SUV is the highest volume selling car for the brand. A Porsche with the ammenities and build quality of the Elise would go over like a turd in a punch bowl in the market. The majority of Porsche buyers want a plush quiet interior. You just can't build a 1,900 pound car with Porsche build quality, something's gotta give and the compromise is the weight.