PHUNBALL

Don't everyone get too upset because BMW actually lost a comparo. The RS6 is a monster and the new S4 is also pretty incredible. Audi deserves some serious credit for building some serious cars. Just my .02, but why hate on some fabulous cars? I thought we were supposed to be "car enthusiasts".

Alex, what makes you think an AWD car can not handle like an RWD drive car? Hmm, let me name a few examples of some good handling AWD cars. Diablo, Murcielago, 996TT, and Evo8 to name a few.

BTW, AWD does not equal understeer, it has more to do with suspension tuning and weight distribution. It can also be attributed to a staggerd tire setup. There are many factors that contribute to a cars handling so don't assume that because it is AWD it handles poorly and pushes like a dump truck. The suspension on an AWD car can be tuned just like that of a RWD car to incorporate understeer, oversteer, or a neutral behavior.

alexf20c

Well, PHUNBALL, with my experiences with Audis, they're understeering pigs. The outgoing S4 definitely, the TT 225hp to some extent, but especially the granddaddy (man, that's a lot of D's)S8.

Maybe, if Audi finally got it right, they fixed this problem with their RS6 and S4. My fingers are crossed.



BTW, I'm a car enthusiast to the core, and am not hating on the two Audis, I just feel that in this segment of the market, they do not deserve top honors. Like micah pointed out, maybe C/D's priorities were biased more towards practicality, drive-ability, etc., and not the pure driving experience.

PHUNBALL

I agree that Audi's are generally understeering cars, I was just pointing out that AWD is not the reason for that. It is a lot of factors, a greater front weight distibution being one of them (BTW, a simple sway bar swap changes that characteristic tremendously).

Personally I think it's great for the industry that MB and BMW now have someone else to look out for. Audi is coming on very strong. They have one of the best interiors in the business, their build quality is not there yet, but very close to where it needs to be, and they are starting to churn out some great performance from their cars. Maybe the Audi's did deserve to win, maybe they did'nt, but either way they are making a strong statement that they can at least hang with if not beat the infamous M5, etc., which in turn will hopefully bring better cars to our showrooms from all of these manufacturers.

PHUNBALL

We all have to remember that they are after all a bunch of big ass sedans. They are made for more than lapping the Nurburgring at a blistering pace. So, I think all factors should be considred when testing one of these cars and we should not get caught up in the pure performance even though it is the best part. :-)

alexf20c

True, but when we're dealing with this level of performance, practicality, interior acoutrements, fuel economy, road noise, etc. should not take precedence over the essence of the car - which is, in the end, the purist performance.

S2Muchfun

First off I would like to say that all have given very good viewpoints and opinions. Secondly, I know that I myself, when reading about or considering purchasing a sport sedan, have certain factors that I take into consideration.

Example: I own an S2k, so from now on when I purchase a new sport sedan it will lean slightly on the luxury/comfort side. This is because I have the S2k and would'nt even think about taking my sport sedan to the track, that's what the S2k is for.

I currently have a '96 M3, and although it is thouroughly fun to drive, I would much rather drive the S2k around the track, and yes I have had both cars at the track, and at the same time. If you haven't guessed by now my votes are for the Audi's. I do have to agree with the "We like the new car" bandwagon propaganda, but still like the Audi's more.

Yes I am sure that both examples do understeer, how much is a good question, but regardless if you look at the design, it is obvious that unless they have done alot of chassis tweaking these cars will inherintly understeer. That is the curse and the blessing of the Audi sport sedan/wagon AWD design. I think that most car enthusiasts would agree that AWD offers supperior traction, in all conditions certainly.

And people act like understeering is the worst carichteristic (spl?) that a car could have. I think that you could learn how to drive the car with the understeer, much in the same way that I have had to learn how to drive the S2k with it's twitchy character. I also think that the Audi's would handle well within the limits of legal speed limits on normal roads to satisfy all but the people that would want to track these cars.

And who would want to track a 3400 lb. M3 (lightest in the comparo) when you own a light tossable rwd S2k?

Matt

PHUNBALL

[QUOTE]Originally posted by S2Muchfun
[B]First off I would like to say that all have given very good viewpoints and opinions. Secondly, I know that I myself, when reading about or considering purchasing a sport sedan, have certain factors that I take into consideration.

NoMoreWRX

Oh boy, now the M3 guys are going to tell us how great and tossible the M is.

I agree with you Matt

-Ed

eyescream

No matter who won, there'd always be people arguing..........

Saud2k

e55 and the m3 should have won ! (this is a personal view)