Article: Teens crash, people died, but WHOA...
05-16-2005, 10:07 AM
#72
Originally Posted by FILTHY BEAST,May 16 2005, 12:46 PM
Hoth:
In my view its called common sence.
In my view its called common sence.
Unfortunately, too many people just don't have any common sense. And they are always the ones like......"oh, I can't believe my son just total his graduation gift(Corvette)!"
Besides possible civil lawsuit against these pinhead parents, there is nothing you can say to deter them from making these dumb decisions.
Pinhead will always be pinhead.
05-16-2005, 05:15 PM
#73
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Okay, to all of you who said this is partially the fault of the people in the jeep, think about this.
At 55mph you travel 403.333 feet in 5 seconds.
At 140mph you travel 1026.666 feet in 5 seconds.
To travel those 1026.666 feet at 55mph would take 12.7 seconds.
Or 9.333 seconds at 75mph.
To say it isn't 100% the kids fault is dumbass. Not to mention that braking at lower speeds would increase the time to impact by an even greater degree (brakes are least effective at high speeds). The fact is that at 55mph or 75mph there wouldn't have been an accident. Clearly these kids had no regard for anyone but themselves. I mean 140mph on a street with driveways? You gotta be kidding me.
Also, I totally agree with the people saying the parents are partially at fault. I mean what skill has anyone ever perfected with such little practice? Sure there will be very rare exceptions (i.e. Lebron James), but i bet those rare exceptions actually have far more hours or activity logged (be it basketball or driving) then people many times their age, and last i checked there are a limited number of hours to be driving between school getting out at 3 and midnight curfews.
Sorry kids should not be driving corvettes; no exceptions. It is unfair that just because you are vain or your parents are trying to live vicariously or whatever that you put others at risk. Why are guns illegal in public places? Why is smoking being banned in public? Why can't you dump motor oil into sewers? The reason is because we live in a society where our actions impact others, for better or worse, and it is unfair for you to allow your choices to infringe upon another persons LIFE, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. IN THAT ORDER!! So don't say "Oh, not allowing my son to have a corvette is infringing on our pursuit to happiness" because your pursuit of happiness is contingent on the fact that no one else' life or liberty is being infringed upon.
End of rant.
At 55mph you travel 403.333 feet in 5 seconds.
At 140mph you travel 1026.666 feet in 5 seconds.
To travel those 1026.666 feet at 55mph would take 12.7 seconds.
Or 9.333 seconds at 75mph.
To say it isn't 100% the kids fault is dumbass. Not to mention that braking at lower speeds would increase the time to impact by an even greater degree (brakes are least effective at high speeds). The fact is that at 55mph or 75mph there wouldn't have been an accident. Clearly these kids had no regard for anyone but themselves. I mean 140mph on a street with driveways? You gotta be kidding me.
Also, I totally agree with the people saying the parents are partially at fault. I mean what skill has anyone ever perfected with such little practice? Sure there will be very rare exceptions (i.e. Lebron James), but i bet those rare exceptions actually have far more hours or activity logged (be it basketball or driving) then people many times their age, and last i checked there are a limited number of hours to be driving between school getting out at 3 and midnight curfews.
Sorry kids should not be driving corvettes; no exceptions. It is unfair that just because you are vain or your parents are trying to live vicariously or whatever that you put others at risk. Why are guns illegal in public places? Why is smoking being banned in public? Why can't you dump motor oil into sewers? The reason is because we live in a society where our actions impact others, for better or worse, and it is unfair for you to allow your choices to infringe upon another persons LIFE, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. IN THAT ORDER!! So don't say "Oh, not allowing my son to have a corvette is infringing on our pursuit to happiness" because your pursuit of happiness is contingent on the fact that no one else' life or liberty is being infringed upon.
End of rant.
05-17-2005, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by honda606,May 7 2005, 02:42 PM
Would the boy have had the "decision to race" had he not been behind the wheel of 350hp at 17?
Your opinion can be that it was the kid's fault but I do not agree. Your responsibility as a parent is to prevent your children from making ignorant and uninformed decisions; which is quite easy to do when your 17 and driving a $50k sportscar.
Your opinion can be that it was the kid's fault but I do not agree. Your responsibility as a parent is to prevent your children from making ignorant and uninformed decisions; which is quite easy to do when your 17 and driving a $50k sportscar.
05-19-2005, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ruexp67,May 9 2005, 12:27 PM
If the parents hand the keys to a 12 yr old, who is responsible when the kid crashes?
But this particular 17 yr old had a license...
If you are old enough to have a driver's license, you have to be responsible for your own action, simple.
05-19-2005, 04:00 AM
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a 17 yo is not old enough to sign a binding contract, therefore his parents are still responsible for his choices. After all, they are the ones responsible for raising him. Once he is 18, it is all him, but the parents need to demonstrate some responsibility as a matter of common sense, not because of some legal issue.
05-19-2005, 07:18 AM
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Interesting thread...I just read all of the posts thus far. It veered a bit OT, but not suprisingly.
My thoughts on...
The "black box": As it has been noted some cars have physical boxes in addition to their ECU's whereas most cars rely upon programming within their ECU's to record certain parameters (such as Hondas). The use of said data in criminal cases is most definitely a double-edged sword. I applaud the existence of such devices and the use of said data for engineering purposes for sure. While I think the idea of "Big Brother" monitoring my actions makes me want to
, currently we are talking about very small segments of time being recorded, and only in the event of an engine failure or accident.
In the event of a bad accident such as the one in question I think it is completely acceptable, and morally just to use this info to aid in the prosecution of the guitly party. After all, they were breaking the law.
I would certainly refuse to drive/own any vehicle equppied with devices which allowed for real-time monitoring by a third party of my actions and/or whereabouts.
Parental Responsibility: Its hard for me to be brief about this, but I will try...
Parents are by law legally responsible for their children up through the age of 17. A HUGE part of being a parent is educating and morally grooming your children to know right from wrong. My parents did a great job (IMO) raising me, and I still did some stupid shit as a teen (who doesn't?). The bottom line is that our society as it exists today makes it near impossible for parents to provide 100% supervision, especially during the high school years.
That said...a lot of assumptions have been made in this thread. Does anyone even know if the cars the teens were driving belonged to them? Maybe they were the parents' cars. Maybe they stole the cars.
I agree 100% that if the cars were purchased specifically for the teens by their parents (at least in the case of the Corvette) than the parents are complete morons (or at the very least suffer from a total lack of common sense). Someone else stated it pretty dead-on earlier, "its like giving a kid a gun and bullets and then being surprised when they shoot someone".
True, you could've given the kid a Civic, and he probably still would be racing it after a healthy dose of stickers, useless guages, and neon. However, a 350HP vette (or a vette of just about any kind) in the hands of a 17 year old is about as sure a guarantee of racing as can be had.
I wanted a 5.0 Mustang when I turned 16. My father knew better and put me in a Thunderbird LX, complete with wire spoke hubcaps. Did I pull some stupid shit in that car? Of course. But it was mostly stupid shit that revolved around throwing eggs instead of trying to drag race other cars.
I think that in this particular case (assuming again that the parents voluntarily provided the cars in question) the parents should at least be responsible for financial obligations to the families of the victims. I do not think that the parents should face criminal prosecution. That should be directed at their children who were actually driving.
Craig
My thoughts on...
The "black box": As it has been noted some cars have physical boxes in addition to their ECU's whereas most cars rely upon programming within their ECU's to record certain parameters (such as Hondas). The use of said data in criminal cases is most definitely a double-edged sword. I applaud the existence of such devices and the use of said data for engineering purposes for sure. While I think the idea of "Big Brother" monitoring my actions makes me want to
, currently we are talking about very small segments of time being recorded, and only in the event of an engine failure or accident. In the event of a bad accident such as the one in question I think it is completely acceptable, and morally just to use this info to aid in the prosecution of the guitly party. After all, they were breaking the law.
I would certainly refuse to drive/own any vehicle equppied with devices which allowed for real-time monitoring by a third party of my actions and/or whereabouts.
Parental Responsibility: Its hard for me to be brief about this, but I will try...
Parents are by law legally responsible for their children up through the age of 17. A HUGE part of being a parent is educating and morally grooming your children to know right from wrong. My parents did a great job (IMO) raising me, and I still did some stupid shit as a teen (who doesn't?). The bottom line is that our society as it exists today makes it near impossible for parents to provide 100% supervision, especially during the high school years.
That said...a lot of assumptions have been made in this thread. Does anyone even know if the cars the teens were driving belonged to them? Maybe they were the parents' cars. Maybe they stole the cars.
I agree 100% that if the cars were purchased specifically for the teens by their parents (at least in the case of the Corvette) than the parents are complete morons (or at the very least suffer from a total lack of common sense). Someone else stated it pretty dead-on earlier, "its like giving a kid a gun and bullets and then being surprised when they shoot someone".
True, you could've given the kid a Civic, and he probably still would be racing it after a healthy dose of stickers, useless guages, and neon. However, a 350HP vette (or a vette of just about any kind) in the hands of a 17 year old is about as sure a guarantee of racing as can be had.
I wanted a 5.0 Mustang when I turned 16. My father knew better and put me in a Thunderbird LX, complete with wire spoke hubcaps. Did I pull some stupid shit in that car? Of course. But it was mostly stupid shit that revolved around throwing eggs instead of trying to drag race other cars.
I think that in this particular case (assuming again that the parents voluntarily provided the cars in question) the parents should at least be responsible for financial obligations to the families of the victims. I do not think that the parents should face criminal prosecution. That should be directed at their children who were actually driving.
Craig
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