Another one of these threads... Cayman S or Elise?
03-27-2014, 02:35 PM
#21
Update: The confusion swells. Haha.
I drove a Cayman S yesterday. When I got to the dealership, I was very frank with the salesman. I told him something along the lines of, "Yesterday, I drove God's own chariot, the Lotus Elise, so I am willing to bet that the Cayman is a huge disappointment. I'd like to test drive it just to rule it out as a contender." He was cool about it and he tossed me the keys and told me to take it for as long as I wanted to.
I walked around the car (this one) and it occurred to me that I had never actually seen a Cayman up close. In person, it looks much nicer than in pictures, but more importantly, what really struck me was just how much content and bells and whistles this thing has relative to the weight. I sat in the car and instantly fell in love. The seating position, the seats themselves, the angle of the windshield, the arch of the roof, everything just felt perfect. It was as if the car fit me like a custom tailored suit. Further, this car sits really low. It didn't feel like my seating position was much higher than the Elise or my lowered Miata. It felt like I was in an exotic and I liked it.
I drove the car around to let it warm up and then I quickly made my way to a freeway onramp, which everyone knows are legal acceleration test tracks because God loves us. The car accelerated nicely. It was a different kind of acceleration that the Elise, but the results felt very comparable. The Elise pulled much harder in the last 1,000 RPMs of its power band than the Cayman seemed to pull anywhere in its power band, which was nice, but the Cayman felt great at any RPM. I know that Corvette owners would laugh at the Cayman's torque figures, but to someone who drives a 2.0 liter car to work and a boosted 1.6 liter car on the weekends, the Cayman's torque felt nice.
The Cayman's ride and handling are awesome. The steering felt great, and when I gave it a little throttle around a few corners, the car rotated predictably and confidently. It felt like I knew exactly where its limits were by instinct (figuratively, of course. I was only driving at 3/10s).
But my favorite part was the interior, which came as a great surprise. I have always driven bare bones cars, and I've owned a few cars with gutted or partially gutted interiors. I've always considered myself hardcore enough that I need not bother with fancy interior, which is partially what made the Elise so appealing, yet I truly loved the Cayman's interior. All of the buttons felt so affirmative, for lack of a better term. When you changed the fan speed on the AC, there was a chunky mechanical feel to it that just felt right. Ditto all of the other controls. The radio was kind of lacking, but everything else was great.
Here's the best part, which is also, consequently, the part I'm most embarrassed about. I drove the car up to my office so that I could show it to a coworker. Right as I pulled in, all of my coworkers and a good number of my employees were coming back from a group lunch, and they all absolutely swooned over the car. Now, I have never owned a car that anyone other than car nerds could appreciate. I always jokingly refer to my Miata as a dick magnet because, unlike a pussy magnet, my Miata only attracts guys who see the intercooler. Haha. So, to find myself with a car that everyone was impressed by and enamored with made me feel pretty good. I am by no means a shallow person, nor am I overly concerned about what other people think of my possessions, but I can definitely say that it brought a smile to my face to see how delighted everyone was with the car. Again, I know that's kind of a lame reason to like a car, but I'd be lying if I said it isn't a factor.
Now I am more confused than ever. I thought for sure that the Cayman S wouldn't hold a candle to the Elise, but it really does perform well. It felt like it gave most of the Elise experience while also offering a different experience as well. I can't say that I am now 100% in favor of the Cayman S now, but I am definitely leaning that way.
I drove a Cayman S yesterday. When I got to the dealership, I was very frank with the salesman. I told him something along the lines of, "Yesterday, I drove God's own chariot, the Lotus Elise, so I am willing to bet that the Cayman is a huge disappointment. I'd like to test drive it just to rule it out as a contender." He was cool about it and he tossed me the keys and told me to take it for as long as I wanted to.
I walked around the car (this one) and it occurred to me that I had never actually seen a Cayman up close. In person, it looks much nicer than in pictures, but more importantly, what really struck me was just how much content and bells and whistles this thing has relative to the weight. I sat in the car and instantly fell in love. The seating position, the seats themselves, the angle of the windshield, the arch of the roof, everything just felt perfect. It was as if the car fit me like a custom tailored suit. Further, this car sits really low. It didn't feel like my seating position was much higher than the Elise or my lowered Miata. It felt like I was in an exotic and I liked it.
I drove the car around to let it warm up and then I quickly made my way to a freeway onramp, which everyone knows are legal acceleration test tracks because God loves us. The car accelerated nicely. It was a different kind of acceleration that the Elise, but the results felt very comparable. The Elise pulled much harder in the last 1,000 RPMs of its power band than the Cayman seemed to pull anywhere in its power band, which was nice, but the Cayman felt great at any RPM. I know that Corvette owners would laugh at the Cayman's torque figures, but to someone who drives a 2.0 liter car to work and a boosted 1.6 liter car on the weekends, the Cayman's torque felt nice.
The Cayman's ride and handling are awesome. The steering felt great, and when I gave it a little throttle around a few corners, the car rotated predictably and confidently. It felt like I knew exactly where its limits were by instinct (figuratively, of course. I was only driving at 3/10s).
But my favorite part was the interior, which came as a great surprise. I have always driven bare bones cars, and I've owned a few cars with gutted or partially gutted interiors. I've always considered myself hardcore enough that I need not bother with fancy interior, which is partially what made the Elise so appealing, yet I truly loved the Cayman's interior. All of the buttons felt so affirmative, for lack of a better term. When you changed the fan speed on the AC, there was a chunky mechanical feel to it that just felt right. Ditto all of the other controls. The radio was kind of lacking, but everything else was great.
Here's the best part, which is also, consequently, the part I'm most embarrassed about. I drove the car up to my office so that I could show it to a coworker. Right as I pulled in, all of my coworkers and a good number of my employees were coming back from a group lunch, and they all absolutely swooned over the car. Now, I have never owned a car that anyone other than car nerds could appreciate. I always jokingly refer to my Miata as a dick magnet because, unlike a pussy magnet, my Miata only attracts guys who see the intercooler. Haha. So, to find myself with a car that everyone was impressed by and enamored with made me feel pretty good. I am by no means a shallow person, nor am I overly concerned about what other people think of my possessions, but I can definitely say that it brought a smile to my face to see how delighted everyone was with the car. Again, I know that's kind of a lame reason to like a car, but I'd be lying if I said it isn't a factor.
Now I am more confused than ever. I thought for sure that the Cayman S wouldn't hold a candle to the Elise, but it really does perform well. It felt like it gave most of the Elise experience while also offering a different experience as well. I can't say that I am now 100% in favor of the Cayman S now, but I am definitely leaning that way.
03-27-2014, 02:37 PM
#22
Also, the clutch pedal in the Cayman was incredibly stiff. Are they all that way or do you think it may have an aftermarket clutch?
03-27-2014, 03:22 PM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,933
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 2006-2008 Cayman clutch is stiffer than the 2009-2012 models.
After owning a 2012 Boxster S and then driving a 2007 Boxster S, I was amazed at how lighter the 2012 felt.
Go test drive a 2009 Cayman S and you will notice that the clutch is a lot more "S2000-like" in terms of effort. The 2009+ also have better shifter feel but the steering is a tad lighter.
After owning a 2012 Boxster S and then driving a 2007 Boxster S, I was amazed at how lighter the 2012 felt.
Go test drive a 2009 Cayman S and you will notice that the clutch is a lot more "S2000-like" in terms of effort. The 2009+ also have better shifter feel but the steering is a tad lighter.
03-27-2014, 06:54 PM
#25
The Cayman I linked to above has the Sport Chrono package. I Googled it but I can't figure out what that means. Any ideas?
03-27-2014, 07:53 PM
#26
I have an 06,and yes, the clutch is quite heavy. No complaints here, as the clamping force is very good. Mine has 42k miles, more than half of those boosted, and no issues with the oem setup.
Sport Chrome does a couple of things when you activate the "sport" mode. Traction and stability control thresholds are relaxed a bit, meaning you can get more slip before they intervene. Throttle sensitivity is also increased, pretty significantly. Then you get that stupid little clock dial in the middle of the dash, which you can control as a stopwatch.
I think the Elise is an awesome car, but its not for the street. The Cayman is at home anywhere you want to take it. I drive mine daily, I've taken it on a couple of long trips, I've been to the track, and autocross. You name it.
Sport Chrome does a couple of things when you activate the "sport" mode. Traction and stability control thresholds are relaxed a bit, meaning you can get more slip before they intervene. Throttle sensitivity is also increased, pretty significantly. Then you get that stupid little clock dial in the middle of the dash, which you can control as a stopwatch.
I think the Elise is an awesome car, but its not for the street. The Cayman is at home anywhere you want to take it. I drive mine daily, I've taken it on a couple of long trips, I've been to the track, and autocross. You name it.
03-27-2014, 08:24 PM
#27
Thanks, Jeff. Can you tell me a little more about your turbo setup? I suppose my biggest question is the engine management. I come from the background of tuning Hondas and I am firm believer in stand alones vs. hacking OEM ECUs and whatnot, but I really have no understanding of what the capabilities of the stock sensors and ECU is on the Cayman.
03-28-2014, 06:42 AM
#28
Jeff pretty much nailed what Sport Chrono does, and the change in throttle sensitivity is no joke! I have to adjust my clutch engagement big time otherwise I overrev like crazy (if putting around through traffic). However, I want to add a little detail to his description. In normal driving mode the engine has a "soft" fuel cutoff, which means starting at 6800 rpm the ECU slowly starts cutting back on the power delivery. When Sport mode is activated the engine has a hard fuel cut, with no ECU imposed reduction in power beyond 6800 rpm.
It also looks like your car doesn't have the original exhaust system (or just tips) - they were squared off for 2006-2008 models. Could be the tips from the '09-'12 model, something aftermarket, or maybe a factory option at the time?
If that's the car you end up wanting see if you can get a list of the option codes for that vehicle. (after which it's easy to look up online exactly how equipped the car was as delivered).
It also looks like your car doesn't have the original exhaust system (or just tips) - they were squared off for 2006-2008 models. Could be the tips from the '09-'12 model, something aftermarket, or maybe a factory option at the time?
If that's the car you end up wanting see if you can get a list of the option codes for that vehicle. (after which it's easy to look up online exactly how equipped the car was as delivered).
03-28-2014, 06:44 AM
#29
Sure, my car has the TPC Racing turbo. It's a 5-6 psi setup with intercooler. As part of the installation, you send off your ECU to TPC and they reflash it. I have ZERO complaints with the setup, it's a very well developed package. The car's manners are impeccable. It idles smoothly at 650-700rpm in all weather conditions. It doesn't overheat. It's never thrown a CEL either. Mine is making about 460hp/400lb-ft at the crank. It's an absolute blast to drive, and in reality, a bit more than you can safely enjoy on the street. Then, when you activate Sport mode, watch out. With the increased throttle sensitivity, the car just wants to go.
Two minor quibbles - I have some minor rattling/buzzing somewhere in the exhaust plumbing or heat shields. Not always there, but annoying when I hear it. And, the kit uses oversized injectors, but the car's trip computer does not know this or adjust for it. So, all MPG data and remaining range are off by a factor of 2.
I like to think of it this way. Clear your head for a minute - clean sheet of paper. Imagine we're going to design a car. It's a mid-engine layout, 2-seater. We'll keep the weight at about 3000lbs, and turbocharge it to 460hp (that's 6.5lbs/hp). It's got huge brakes and 4-piston Brembo calipers, and an active suspension. And German road feel and build quality. You can own this car (it's used, but a garage queen) for about the same price as an IS250 Sport at the Lexus dealer down the street. Seriously, where do I sign up? Please, take my money. Oh wait, I already did.
Two minor quibbles - I have some minor rattling/buzzing somewhere in the exhaust plumbing or heat shields. Not always there, but annoying when I hear it. And, the kit uses oversized injectors, but the car's trip computer does not know this or adjust for it. So, all MPG data and remaining range are off by a factor of 2.
I like to think of it this way. Clear your head for a minute - clean sheet of paper. Imagine we're going to design a car. It's a mid-engine layout, 2-seater. We'll keep the weight at about 3000lbs, and turbocharge it to 460hp (that's 6.5lbs/hp). It's got huge brakes and 4-piston Brembo calipers, and an active suspension. And German road feel and build quality. You can own this car (it's used, but a garage queen) for about the same price as an IS250 Sport at the Lexus dealer down the street. Seriously, where do I sign up? Please, take my money. Oh wait, I already did.
03-28-2014, 06:56 AM
#30
Wolfpack, thanks for adding the point about the soft rev limiter.
On the throttle sensitivity issue, that's probably my one complaint about the Sport package. When I take my car on track, I want to use sport mode, because I want the nannies to take a step back. But my clutchwork suffers because I need to recalibrate my footwork. I don't normally use Sport on the street, because it's a little much with my setup for daily driving.
Oddly enough, I also had a GSR, then the s2k, then the Cayman.
On the throttle sensitivity issue, that's probably my one complaint about the Sport package. When I take my car on track, I want to use sport mode, because I want the nannies to take a step back. But my clutchwork suffers because I need to recalibrate my footwork. I don't normally use Sport on the street, because it's a little much with my setup for daily driving.
Oddly enough, I also had a GSR, then the s2k, then the Cayman.