vader1

Well most cars have "luxury" features, but there are grades of leather, quality of switchgear, general build, ride and handling, engines, etc. I don't think even the average person is going to drive a top of the line Nissan Murano with all the bells and whistles and then drive an X5 or Cayenne with the same list of features and not notice huge differences.

I like the fact you can get nice things on cheaper cars, and it has been that way for a long time, but all one needs to do is sit in or go drive a nicely optioned Porsche product and everything you touch is top notch (ok you got me on some recent window switches) and then drive it around for 10 minutes and there is a noticeable level of quality that makes it a luxury car that is rarely matched.

I think the best blend of value and quality of materials is Mazda these days. The CX90 high trim levels are beautiful inside. I think better than an X5, but the engine does not come close to BMW.

It works in reverse though too, Jeep thinks their products somehow merit super premium prices but the public is not buying it. They are smoking crack for upper level Grand Cherokees and Wagoneers especially.

TheDonEffect

In some ways I agree, but take for instance Honda and Acura. I am not going to argue that there is no discernible differences between the two, clearly Honda puts a little more effort into their Acura products, however when you consider the Integra is pretty much a Civic Si with leather and a few more tech features, the differences aren't that far apart. I believe the populace also understands this as well, hence the degradation as a luxury brand for Acura. It doesn't mean Acura isn't selling vehicles, I think the MDX is still one of the best selling vehicles in its segment, but I believe people purchase vehicles like the MDX for its value proposition vs aspirational qualities.

I've spent enough time around Pilots and MDXs to know that while yes the MDX is nicer, it's not so much nicer that I would pay a significant premium over an option for option Pilot, which Honda clearly understands and recognizes since option for option IIRC they're similar money.

I believe Toyota from this perspective has done much better, since the majority of their lineup have unique drivetrains and discerible differences (FWD vs RWD, bigger engines, etc).

I truly don't believe the average person knows the difference, the emblem on the hood and the power of marketing tells them what they should like because... even in the case of Porsche, their switchgear isn't that much better than cars half their price. The sea of cheap plastic buttons that surround the infotainment and shifter lacks imagination and doesn't have the same premium quality feel of say an Audi. You don't have to look particularly hard online (Youtube) for QC problems with Porsches too, although they do a much better job once you get to their halo models, which you would expect given the profit margins. To expound, for me one of the bigger selling points of the now discontinued TT was getting an Audi level interior. People have also made the similar comparisons with the R8 vs Lambos, or why people would rather buy a Merc SLR/AMG GT/SLS/SL over its rivals because of them having a higher level of interior finish. And while Porsche shifter feel is good, I would never categorize them as great, and don't get me started with rubbery BMW shifters with their long throws. And BMW interiors are known to flake if you subject those cars to real world conditions.

If the average consumer knew better, than quality would've been maintained, because all the OEMs, even Lexus, have been slipping lately. I was shocked how much cheaper the current LS interior felt compared to prior generations. The center console had as much play as GM interiors. Interestingly though, when you get to the LX, which apparently now are mostly special order, the essentially same center console is as tight as a virgin frog.

Regarding door slams and such, alot of it is the lock, but alot of it also has to do with the more advanced, and therefore thinner wobblier, metals used on doors, so that vault like chunk you used to get doesn't exist on modern doors.

Don't get me started on panel fitment/alignment and paint quality.

I need to be more productive with my time...

QUIKAG

Good points, Don. The problem is, mostly, that manufacturers have figured out that 90%+ of consumers are idiots and they can sell them a "pig with lipstick" as someone earlier said and sell it for a much higher premium. It is becoming rare where true differentiation occurs to justify the much higher price. Otherwise, as you said, a Pilot and MDX are mostly the same, but idiot consumers will pay $20k more for an MDX just because it says Acura and looks a touch prettier. Same with GM and their Tahoes versus Escalades. 90% same vehicle, but tens of thousands more for the 'name' and a little different styling inside and out, with maybe a couple more mostly worthless gadgets. Every maker is guilty at this point.

On the other spectrum, a Cayenne, Audi Q8, Urus, Bentayga, are all very similar vehicles underneath, but maybe some more powerful engines, etc. and nicer interior/exterior for dramatically different money. The Cayenne (not sure on the new '24) annoyed the hell out of me when I had loaners and it had that huge swath of black plastic on the center console where buttons lit up if you had that option or feature. But, you could actually see in certain light, the outline of the other options, but they were blacked out underneath the plastic and wouldn't light up if your model didn't have it. Super cheapo in my opinion. Same people that spec'd that crap also spec'd the new haptic VW GTI/R, etc most likely.

TheDonEffect

Quickag, it's pretty blatant sometimes to the money grabbing that goes on with OEMs. Android Auto/Carplay with BMW and Porsche for instance, how is that even an option? You could buy decks that are cheaper than CD players that have those functions. The wireless vs wired I somewhat get, but the fact that BMW and Porsche tried to make those services subscription base is just so so so shady.

Regarding the MDX vs Pilot, there is an insignificant cost difference between them when they're equipped similarly.

Regarding the lipstick on a pig thing, I'd say that argument is more valid regarding luxury cars then optioned up entry level cars. Going back to the Pilot and MDX, the only real discerible difference is some irrelevant tech and a higher effort of design I suppose, although I think the Pilot looks better imo.

I think what's happened is that OEMs figured out after a certain price point, people won't buy it no matter how objectively good it is without some sort of aspirational value attached to it. VW did it with the Phaeton, to a certain degree Toyota did it with the Avalon, etc etc. Additionally, people forgot what made those higher end goods aspirational to begin with, usually because they were actually better. Like Louis Vuitton started by making high quality, relatively indestructible travel goods, and now they attach intentionally obvious plastic chains because fashion. Mercedes used to make high quality, long lasting, over engineered/built vehicles, now they make cars designed to only last during a lease period. Range Rover used to make durable, robust off roaders that you could rely when you're way way way off the grid. I wouldn't even trust them to go camping now.

Saki GT

Going the other way, a quick search shows mid $20k cars like Corollas available with leather, heated seats and mirrors, dual zone climate control, etc.

For people looking for luxury features, they are available in even the cheapest new cars as options now.

QUIKAG

Yep, luxury used to truly mean exclusivity and quality as you mention with your MB examples. I remember riding in my uncles old 560SEL Mercedes with like 150k miles on it when I was a teenager and the thing felt like a damn tank rolling down the road. Not one squeak, rattle, anything. Engine was so smooth, quiet, and powerful too. Hell of a car for sure. Now, Mercedes is still nice but their build quality and reliability is not assured at all, hence I've never really been interested in throwing down six figures for a depreciation roller coaster drop and dealer visits/headaches. Boss just took delivery of a 2024 S680 Maybach with the two tone silver/black exterior. Gorgeous car and the yacht blue interior is amazing, but $300k OTD with extended warranty and a few other things we added (tire/wheel because he drives it like a truck and pops tires and bends wheels all the time on his V12 MB cars), f-that for $300k personally.

WolfpackS2k

Yeah, I miss the days of true luxury. Price be damned build quality and materials. And built & engineered to last more or less forever. That's true luxury IMO. Most of the tech stuff are just gimmicks.

TheDonEffect

Yeah I sorta miss that too. When luxury brands begin to build things to a price point, it sorta defeats the purpose right? Because what is luxury otherwise? More space? A bigger vehicle doesn't necessarily mean better. In the past it definitely was more features. Imo, it should be the best that they offer, like all cars have stereos, but a luxury car should come with an exceptional one. But even that is an option these days.

Bullwings

Seems the gripe here is that it isn't luxury if it's accessible to everyone. Needs to have exclusivity.

Remember watching movies from the 80s and early 90s and they would emphasize the use of a car phone as a display of wealth/luxury?

The new "in" thing is "quiet luxury" and "stealth wealth".

silvio1522

Might be "in", but what's the point of having it if you can't flaunt it? Are people really trying to build wealth, for the greater good of mankind? Please spare me the "link" to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Warren Buffett, and numerous other foundations. I'm talking about the regular "Joe". Why buy burger, if you can afford steak? I have learned to love the taste of burger, but given the choice and means........