Originally Posted by Saki GT

I think more than anything its a reconnection to the NB design language.

Originally Posted by Lazyrider69

Well... a lot of articles have sprung up since MX5 reveal and several have mentioned new Mx5 being reminiscent of the S2000.... just sayin!!!


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/05/au...iata.html?_r=0

"Mazda made the nose of the car flatter and lower than the 2015 model, while adding prominent, peaked fenders in the front and back that are reminiscent of the Honda S2000."

Originally Posted by Ricky_Flowers_

A few things:

I'm going off of memory on 100% of this, and not doing any research. This is a discussion, and if I'm wrong on these numbers, sorry. I'm not winning a trophy, you're not winning a trophy, no gold stars will be handed out, etc.

After looking everything up (apparently, what you felt I should have done initially) the MSRP for a base Miata in 2000 was $20,545. The MSRP for the same year Honda S2000 was $32,000. That car cost, brand new at introduction, 36% more than the same year base model Miata.

Let's compare horsepower figures:

Honda S2000: 240 HP
Mazda Miata (base): 140 HP

That is a 42% increase in power.

This bump in power could be attributed to a few things: bigger budget for engine development, and a more expensive engine that was designed from scratch for the S2000. Honda threw its engineering might at producing the best road car engine it could for the platform, and the rest is history.

Mazda, on the other hand, continued to put the same engine that it had began producing in 1989. Although the engine was incrementally updated in that time, it was based on the original 80's technology and engineering principles of the first iteration of the BP engine.

These cars, back then, were on two entirely different levels in terms of engine performance and price.

Now is where it starts to get kinda fuzzy. Mazda produced the MZR engine for the NC and the rest of it's four-cylinder line up. The engine, although discontinued by Mazda, is still being made by Ford. It was designed to be a responsive, economical four-cylinder engine to be shared across the Mazda brand in anything from the MX-5 to the 3/6 sedan, even the 5 wagon and in turbocharged iteration the Mazdaspeed3 and CX-7. This is in contrast to the F-series in that it was designed with eking out as much horsepower from a 2-liter engine, economy and torque be damned. It's a completely different, and much more exotic animal than any engine Mazda will ever put in a Miata.

The new Skyactiv engines will still make upwards of 160 hp (this engine in a Mazda 3 makes 184 in base trim) while still returning impressive fuel economy (28/38 in that same 3). This increase in efficiency is remarkable in that they are making so much power out of a truly mass-produced engine.

I'm willing to eat my own words if I'm wrong, but I cannot see them charging more than $26,000 (base model) for this car. Even if they do, it's still shouldn't be too surprising, considering the price of new cars has been going up for years now, especially sports cars. Imagine how much a new S2000 would cost. Do you think it would still be $32,000 dollars, new? Probably not, right? This hypothetical argument of performance-per-dollar is always incredibly difficult to nail down when comparing a used car (priced as a new one) to a new car.

Regardless of how much it costs, I have every reason to believe it will be a great little sports car. Anyone who has ever owned and driven Miatas (I work on them every day) knows that it's more than the sum of its parts, and is an excellent drivers car regardless of power. I still don't understand why S2000 owners feel the need to justify their decision to buy one over a Miata, when their car is, in essence, almost 15 years old now, and Mazda is still making these. If horsepower was such an issue, you would have bought a Corvette, no?

The REAL argument here is whether this car, new, is a better buy than a used S2000 of the same price. For $26,000 you could buy a really nice '08 AP2, and for the price of an optioned-up MX-5 you could reasonably expect to be able to afford a really nice CR. Obviously, I took the route of buying a used car (an AP1) instead of buying a new car, even though I could have afforded one. If I had to do it all over again, I would have, but I would also have bought a used Miata and turbocharged it, as every time I get on track they seem to pass me....

Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.

A few things:

I'm going off of memory on 100% of this, and not doing any research. This is a discussion, and if I'm wrong on these numbers, sorry. I'm not winning a trophy, you're not winning a trophy, no gold stars will be handed out, etc.

After looking everything up (apparently, what you felt I should have done initially) the MSRP for a base Miata in 2000 was $20,545. The MSRP for the same year Honda S2000 was $32,000. That car cost, brand new at introduction, 36% more than the same year base model Miata.

Let's compare horsepower figures:

Honda S2000: 240 HP
Mazda Miata (base): 140 HP

That is a 42% increase in power.

This bump in power could be attributed to a few things: bigger budget for engine development, and a more expensive engine that was designed from scratch for the S2000. Honda threw its engineering might at producing the best road car engine it could for the platform, and the rest is history.

Mazda, on the other hand, continued to put the same engine that it had began producing in 1989. Although the engine was incrementally updated in that time, it was based on the original 80's technology and engineering principles of the first iteration of the BP engine.

These cars, back then, were on two entirely different levels in terms of engine performance and price.

Now is where it starts to get kinda fuzzy. Mazda produced the MZR engine for the NC and the rest of it's four-cylinder line up. The engine, although discontinued by Mazda, is still being made by Ford. It was designed to be a responsive, economical four-cylinder engine to be shared across the Mazda brand in anything from the MX-5 to the 3/6 sedan, even the 5 wagon and in turbocharged iteration the Mazdaspeed3 and CX-7. This is in contrast to the F-series in that it was designed with eking out as much horsepower from a 2-liter engine, economy and torque be damned. It's a completely different, and much more exotic animal than any engine Mazda will ever put in a Miata.

The new Skyactiv engines will still make upwards of 160 hp (this engine in a Mazda 3 makes 184 in base trim) while still returning impressive fuel economy (28/38 in that same 3). This increase in efficiency is remarkable in that they are making so much power out of a truly mass-produced engine.

I'm willing to eat my own words if I'm wrong, but I cannot see them charging more than $26,000 (base model) for this car. Even if they do, it's still shouldn't be too surprising, considering the price of new cars has been going up for years now, especially sports cars. Imagine how much a new S2000 would cost. Do you think it would still be $32,000 dollars, new? Probably not, right? This hypothetical argument of performance-per-dollar is always incredibly difficult to nail down when comparing a used car (priced as a new one) to a new car.

Regardless of how much it costs, I have every reason to believe it will be a great little sports car. Anyone who has ever owned and driven Miatas (I work on them every day) knows that it's more than the sum of its parts, and is an excellent drivers car regardless of power. I still don't understand why S2000 owners feel the need to justify their decision to buy one over a Miata, when their car is, in essence, almost 15 years old now, and Mazda is still making these. If horsepower was such an issue, you would have bought a Corvette, no?

The REAL argument here is whether this car, new, is a better buy than a used S2000 of the same price. For $26,000 you could buy a really nice '08 AP2, and for the price of an optioned-up MX-5 you could reasonably expect to be able to afford a really nice CR. Obviously, I took the route of buying a used car (an AP1) instead of buying a new car, even though I could have afforded one. If I had to do it all over again, I would have, but I would also have bought a used Miata and turbocharged it, as every time I get on track they seem to pass me....

Originally Posted by kevinS2OOO

$70k?!

Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.

I agree that you can't just adjust for inflation, but I don't think that's what I was doing. I was referring to the approximate prices of a Miata and s2000 at a time when they when sold together.

Originally Posted by Lazyrider69

The Miata was a roadster for the masses.... Not a bona fide sportscar....