2014 Car and Driver Lightning Lap results
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Getting too excited about tires... each car was tested with the tires that come on it. Clearly the Z28 is a race car that is streetable and does a great job for what it is. I feel the lap test is one of the best comparisons available and take it for what it is, not for what it might be with changes.
I don't think anyone here is butthurt about it, but most of us in this thread track our cars, some competitively, and we know the difference between race tires, race shocks, and everyday type stuff. It was never meant to be a apples to apple test so it's all good. The what could have been is always fun to talk about.
Previous Lap times here- they did some testing with the GTR on the Nissan Spec 240TW All seasons.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10
#43
Originally Posted by cdelena' timestamp='1410105402' post='23319876
Getting too excited about tires... each car was tested with the tires that come on it. Clearly the Z28 is a race car that is streetable and does a great job for what it is. I feel the lap test is one of the best comparisons available and take it for what it is, not for what it might be with changes.
I don't think anyone here is butthurt about it, but most of us in this thread track our cars, some competitively, and we know the difference between race tires, race shocks, and everyday type stuff. It was never meant to be a apples to apple test so it's all good. The what could have been is always fun to talk about.
Previous Lap times here- they did some testing with the GTR on the Nissan Spec 240TW All seasons.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10
They could pick a relatively cheap summer tire and put that on every car. Even if you do that though how do handle tread width? If you put smaller profile tires on the Z/28 it probably would not do so well. The only thing they could do is select one set of rims and put that on each car with the same profile tires on each. If they did that wouldn't it mess up how the suspension is tuned?
#44
Yeah I like the fact that all cars come with the same tires they would from the factory. Otherwise you could quickly get into all cars need the same brakes, tires, etc.
Speaking of which I didn't realize that some of these cars (the z28 included) come with carbon brakes from the factory. Sure the Z28 sets an awesome time, but what are the consumables going to look like for someone who regularly tracks them? A co-worker of mine bought a Camaro SS with the 'dusk' package and the only tires available in that size are $2400 p-zeros.
Speaking of which I didn't realize that some of these cars (the z28 included) come with carbon brakes from the factory. Sure the Z28 sets an awesome time, but what are the consumables going to look like for someone who regularly tracks them? A co-worker of mine bought a Camaro SS with the 'dusk' package and the only tires available in that size are $2400 p-zeros.
#45
Print media is dying - mags' paper circulation is way down, which also hurts ad revenue. They're likely more worried about developing a more sustainable business model than buying a set of R comps for a dozen cars.
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Palo Alto
Posts: 5,387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fun articles but lot's of bench racing. I guess it's like figuring out which team should have won last Sunday. Part of what I think it is interesting is looking at how people talk about "equalizing" cars. I think what people are really trying to do is come up with a single number to explain why one car is better than another. As we all know, there is more to a car than just a single number. A slow Miata might be worlds more fun around a track than a fast sedan.
Anyway, on a near 3 minute lap we see ~10 seconds between fastest and slowest. Call that ~3 seconds per minute. Now consider this recent F2000 race at Thompson Speedway
http://www.f2000championshipseries.c...on-race-2.html
While these are formula cars the rules greatly restrict what they can do. They all have the same motor and tires. The brakes and other parts are very similar. Over the field we see a spread from ~1:07.5 to 1:10. That's about 2.5 seconds per lap.
My point? Well the difference C&D found between the killer 918 and the, relatively speaking, common Corvette was about the same difference we see between "identical" cars at a low level pro race. I'm sure with a few tweaks and different drivers any one of these cars should move notably up or down the list.
Incidentally, since we are talking track days, in the late 90s I was at a test session at Putnam Park. Some locals had purchased a used Indy car, I think it was an early 90s model. It was no longer competitive at Indy. The motor was a down on power Indy Buick V6. I bet it was probably down to 600hp or so. I think they were over 800 at Indy. Anyway, it was clear these guys were in over their heads. They gave a wave by to a 116hp Formula Ford driver. Big toys doesn't mean you know how to use them.
Anyway, on a near 3 minute lap we see ~10 seconds between fastest and slowest. Call that ~3 seconds per minute. Now consider this recent F2000 race at Thompson Speedway
http://www.f2000championshipseries.c...on-race-2.html
While these are formula cars the rules greatly restrict what they can do. They all have the same motor and tires. The brakes and other parts are very similar. Over the field we see a spread from ~1:07.5 to 1:10. That's about 2.5 seconds per lap.
My point? Well the difference C&D found between the killer 918 and the, relatively speaking, common Corvette was about the same difference we see between "identical" cars at a low level pro race. I'm sure with a few tweaks and different drivers any one of these cars should move notably up or down the list.
Incidentally, since we are talking track days, in the late 90s I was at a test session at Putnam Park. Some locals had purchased a used Indy car, I think it was an early 90s model. It was no longer competitive at Indy. The motor was a down on power Indy Buick V6. I bet it was probably down to 600hp or so. I think they were over 800 at Indy. Anyway, it was clear these guys were in over their heads. They gave a wave by to a 116hp Formula Ford driver. Big toys doesn't mean you know how to use them.
#47
Originally Posted by QUIKAG' timestamp='1410101668' post='23319819
[quote name='Chris S' timestamp='1410055934' post='23319473']
75K for a car that turns laps with a 911 Turbo and an F12? There's your bang for you buck.
75K for a car that turns laps with a 911 Turbo and an F12? There's your bang for you buck.
[/quote]
Yeah until it overheats all the fluids and have to pull it off track.
#48
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris S' timestamp='1410105120' post='23319870
[quote name='QUIKAG' timestamp='1410101668' post='23319819']
[quote name='Chris S' timestamp='1410055934' post='23319473']
75K for a car that turns laps with a 911 Turbo and an F12? There's your bang for you buck.
[quote name='Chris S' timestamp='1410055934' post='23319473']
75K for a car that turns laps with a 911 Turbo and an F12? There's your bang for you buck.
[/quote]
Yeah until it overheats all the fluids and have to pull it off track.
[/quote]
It is pretty sad that people are reporting heating and cooling issues with the Z51 package already. I'm sure I hear some good stories soon out here in Phoenix.
#49
You guys are talking as though you expect any car should be able to be tracked without issue. Every car that is abused eventually gets issues, especially high horsepower ones. I am sure there are easy ways to solve the heat issues if you really want to track the car. Let's be honest with ourselves, is the Z28 laptime super impressive for the price? Yes! But its also 18 grand more than a Stingray with a Z51 package and it is comes with tires that are in a completely different league. Another thing no one has mentioned is the DSSV shocks on the Z28 are completely hardcore racing pieces.
http://www.multimatic.com/structures...ion/dssv.shtml
You can find the same type of hardware on LMP, Indy and F1. Stingray Vette is no doubt the value winner. Tires don't matter as soon as you burn your first set away and if you track the car its not going to take long.
http://www.multimatic.com/structures...ion/dssv.shtml
You can find the same type of hardware on LMP, Indy and F1. Stingray Vette is no doubt the value winner. Tires don't matter as soon as you burn your first set away and if you track the car its not going to take long.
#50
Anyone else get their Car and Driver magazine and it's missing pages? Mine jumps from page 40 to page 53 and I am missing the first part of the LL article?