The 2012 Honda Civic is so awful that even Consumer Reports hates it
08-03-2011, 02:57 AM
#21
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They got 47 mpg in the car (!!!), it's quieter than the last one, more spacious, has improved features/amenities and the look hasn't changed much. It's less sporty but quite a bit more compliant while still handling as well or better than almost everything else (new Focus being better, most others being worse). While I understand that the GAP between the 9th gen and 8th gen is much smaller than the one between the 8th gen and 7th gen, the 9th gen is still the better car (by quite a bit, in some cases).
It's a simple case of people comparing to the old car rather than to the competition, I think. Virtually EVERY test does the same thing and it's getting old. The Civic isn't competing with itself - it's competing with the other manufacturers.
It's a simple case of people comparing to the old car rather than to the competition, I think. Virtually EVERY test does the same thing and it's getting old. The Civic isn't competing with itself - it's competing with the other manufacturers.
08-03-2011, 05:30 AM
#22
The Buick? EVERY comparo has said that the Elantra handles worse than the Civic and somehow the Civic is the Buick? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
For the Focus, it may be a "great" car but with a problematic transmission, I don't think anyone is going to enjoy owning it for a long time plus it'll never get anywhere near 47 mpg on the highway. It certainly looks great, inside and out (I saw a bunch of them as rental cars on the road this weekend - the hatchback looks great), but it's certainly far from perfect.
For the Focus, it may be a "great" car but with a problematic transmission, I don't think anyone is going to enjoy owning it for a long time plus it'll never get anywhere near 47 mpg on the highway. It certainly looks great, inside and out (I saw a bunch of them as rental cars on the road this weekend - the hatchback looks great), but it's certainly far from perfect.
As to the Focus, the transmission problem is easily solved by opting for the manual transmission.
08-03-2011, 06:24 AM
#23
Easily solved if you know how to drive one. Most people don't....
08-03-2011, 06:29 AM
#24
Do you see how the 2012 civic looks? Have you seen 2012 Elantra? I undertsnad the looks is in the eye of the beholder but the 2012 civic look more like a last decede car. Sure the got 47 MPG! A geo metro puts 50 easy. The car looks bland, the interior is more cheap, it doesn't is more faster, and a corollla have more soul.
08-03-2011, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by thielepr' timestamp='1312369025' post='20842227
Do you see how the 2012 civic looks? Have you seen 2012 Elantra? I undertsnad the looks is in the eye of the beholder but the 2012 civic look more like a last decede car. Sure the got 47 MPG! A geo metro puts 50 easy. The car looks bland, the interior is more cheap, it doesn't is more faster, and a corollla have more soul.
Even having a S2k and a 06 civic si right now, I'm not loyal to any brand. I usually go to drive new cars often just for fun. I had driven the 2012 civic and beilive me that doesn't inspire more than a corolla. The civic have lost it soul.
I have a 06 civic si. I was waiting for the 2012. Do you really think that it would make sense to trade-in my car to the new Si that doesn't it faster, doesn't handle better and most important it less fun to drive.
08-03-2011, 07:53 AM
#26
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The bottom line is simple, perception becomes reality, call it whatever you want, the facts remain, Honda gets more and more negative publicity, the bowing and respect just because it is a Honda, is long gone, the Honda reputation has taken a beating, and you add all this up, and face it, Honda can't ride forever on their old reputation
08-03-2011, 07:55 AM
#27
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American Honda has responded with a press release
08-03-2011, 08:35 AM
#28
Actually, the new tests show the new Si IS faster, handles just as well and gets better fuel economy. I agree that it probably isn't as "fun" to drive (it's less frenetic, has more torque so it doesn't have to rev so hard, etc, etc) but overall, it will appeal to the masses far more. Enthusiasts are getting the shaft from Honda right now, unfortunately, but I'm betting the new Si will appeal to a broader range of people and probably sell as well or better than the last one. Time will tell...
I never said the Civic was still the benchmark of the group. For fuel economy, it definitely is (nothing else comes close in real world driving). For reliability, it is. For looks, no (never was, really, though the 8th generation was better looking compared to most of its competitors whereas the 9th generation didn't advance enough to say the same).
The Elantra offers a ton of value. It doesn't offer handling. It offers very good fuel economy. It offers lots of features. It doesn't have a proven track record and it's using an engine technology that is PROVEN to have issues.
The Focus is a great car, overall, despite far inferior fuel economy and the clunky automatic transmission. It's a great package with two glaring problems. It's one thing to ignore them in a test drive/comparo (especially if you can choose the manual transmission) and only live with them for a few days but for MOST people, those two issues are going to be very big and very real.
I never said the Civic was still the benchmark of the group. For fuel economy, it definitely is (nothing else comes close in real world driving). For reliability, it is. For looks, no (never was, really, though the 8th generation was better looking compared to most of its competitors whereas the 9th generation didn't advance enough to say the same).
The Elantra offers a ton of value. It doesn't offer handling. It offers very good fuel economy. It offers lots of features. It doesn't have a proven track record and it's using an engine technology that is PROVEN to have issues.
The Focus is a great car, overall, despite far inferior fuel economy and the clunky automatic transmission. It's a great package with two glaring problems. It's one thing to ignore them in a test drive/comparo (especially if you can choose the manual transmission) and only live with them for a few days but for MOST people, those two issues are going to be very big and very real.
08-03-2011, 08:50 AM
#29
Originally Posted by JonBoy' timestamp='1312305373' post='20839362
CR evaluates the vehicle against others in its class, not against prior iterations. The magazines do comparos with current vehicles, not past vehicles.
As far as performance characteristics, the new car handles virtually as well (by the numbers), brakes the same, gets better fuel economy, has more interior room and weighs less while adding a few features with virtually no cost increase for them.
Your Civic Si was fully loaded with power everything, moonroof, LSD, big sound system, and bespoke seats, all for quite a bit less money than a VW GTI. The MS3 was similarly priced, for sure, and is a bargain in and of itself. That said, if you do any research, you'll see how many problems people have had (often for no apparent reason) and realize that they had to cut the quality SOMEWHERE to hit that selling price...
Do I think Honda needs to make improvements? Sure! However, I see this as yet another journalistic bandwagon based on media hype, not reality. Their own numbers damn their report and score for the 2012 Civic.
As far as performance characteristics, the new car handles virtually as well (by the numbers), brakes the same, gets better fuel economy, has more interior room and weighs less while adding a few features with virtually no cost increase for them.
Your Civic Si was fully loaded with power everything, moonroof, LSD, big sound system, and bespoke seats, all for quite a bit less money than a VW GTI. The MS3 was similarly priced, for sure, and is a bargain in and of itself. That said, if you do any research, you'll see how many problems people have had (often for no apparent reason) and realize that they had to cut the quality SOMEWHERE to hit that selling price...
Do I think Honda needs to make improvements? Sure! However, I see this as yet another journalistic bandwagon based on media hype, not reality. Their own numbers damn their report and score for the 2012 Civic.
