"2012 GT-R is now complete"
10-23-2010, 10:16 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by al4t1gbundy,Oct 14 2010, 09:58 AM
Oh great ... add another car to that LED front bumper trend. Good lord.
other than that, that car is great.
10-24-2010, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by newyawkballa,Oct 23 2010, 09:04 PM
Hottest car under $100,000.....I saw a black one at the dealership....Where's the Devil? Tell him I have a soul for sale..
10-24-2010, 09:39 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by Llew,Oct 19 2010, 05:52 AM
You don't have to look far for evidence of exotic dealerships ruining cars: Here's just one example Lambo Talk
It has happened quite a few times in SA as well, eg: Audi RS4 crashed after the tech tried to race a Golf GTI, Lamborghini Murcielago crashed into a wall by a tech, Ford Focus ST's dinged at dealerships and resprayed on site
Back to the GT-R: When I test drove the GT-R (a whopping $180K in sunny South Africa
) the salesman gave me the biggest anti-sell ever. He basically said I could not do track days without informing them otherwise the warranty and maintenance plan would be invalidated (they can track via GPS and 'black box') and if I wanted to do a track day "legitimately" (you know, in the car that I would OWN and they, themselves, market as a Nurburgring eater and awesome track machine), they would have to perform an inspection before the day and a compulsory $3000 of maintenance at my own cost immediately after it was back (or risk invalidating the normal service plan) Similarly, tyres are available "only from them" and at an astronomical price ($6500) and they would also be tracking this since, they claim, the TPMS sensors can only be reset by them. If you don't use tyres bought from them, you also invalidate your plan 
By comparison, I have done many track days in (and even modded) my S and still have my maintenance plan and warranty intact.
I love the GT-R, but I have no doubt it will be more expensive to run than a Gallardo in the long run (by comparison, maintenance is $1700 every 10000km here - most expensive issue may be e-gear clutch at $4500 - and you won't need that after every track day!!). They are track-day friendly and have events organized by Lambo SA.
In SA I think the problem is worse than other countries since Nissan dealers here suddenly think they are better than Lamborghini or Ferrari... A mate of mine recently traded his 350Z for a 335 rather than paying the $2900 for new front rotors... Alot of us sit at our keyboards and think that the GT-R is an awesome car for a good price without knowing what the total cost of ownership is likely to be.
Others will have different views, but if I am spending more than $20000 on a car, It needs to be special, I need to love it and I need to beleive that I will still want and love it for more than 5 years... I don't think it would be fun to own a GT-R after 40000 miles...
It has happened quite a few times in SA as well, eg: Audi RS4 crashed after the tech tried to race a Golf GTI, Lamborghini Murcielago crashed into a wall by a tech, Ford Focus ST's dinged at dealerships and resprayed on site
Back to the GT-R: When I test drove the GT-R (a whopping $180K in sunny South Africa
) the salesman gave me the biggest anti-sell ever. He basically said I could not do track days without informing them otherwise the warranty and maintenance plan would be invalidated (they can track via GPS and 'black box') and if I wanted to do a track day "legitimately" (you know, in the car that I would OWN and they, themselves, market as a Nurburgring eater and awesome track machine), they would have to perform an inspection before the day and a compulsory $3000 of maintenance at my own cost immediately after it was back (or risk invalidating the normal service plan) Similarly, tyres are available "only from them" and at an astronomical price ($6500) and they would also be tracking this since, they claim, the TPMS sensors can only be reset by them. If you don't use tyres bought from them, you also invalidate your plan By comparison, I have done many track days in (and even modded) my S and still have my maintenance plan and warranty intact.I love the GT-R, but I have no doubt it will be more expensive to run than a Gallardo in the long run (by comparison, maintenance is $1700 every 10000km here - most expensive issue may be e-gear clutch at $4500 - and you won't need that after every track day!!). They are track-day friendly and have events organized by Lambo SA.
In SA I think the problem is worse than other countries since Nissan dealers here suddenly think they are better than Lamborghini or Ferrari... A mate of mine recently traded his 350Z for a 335 rather than paying the $2900 for new front rotors... Alot of us sit at our keyboards and think that the GT-R is an awesome car for a good price without knowing what the total cost of ownership is likely to be.
Others will have different views, but if I am spending more than $20000 on a car, It needs to be special, I need to love it and I need to beleive that I will still want and love it for more than 5 years... I don't think it would be fun to own a GT-R after 40000 miles...
However, the number of reports I've seen leads me to one conclusion that makes the GTR a joke in my book. That conclusion is that Nissan's business plan for the GTR was
-build a supercar capable of hanging with the best on a track
-price the supercar tens of thousands less than a 911 TT
-clearly position it as the best performance value in the world
-make your money by denying warranty claims for any GTR modded or tracked, ridiculous service charges (eg $7500 brake job), and outrageously priced parts.
It's so obvious that the GTR plan was to keep warranty claims to a minimum...the amount of data logging, gps tracking, required services, etc is insane and unprecedented.
I find it hilarious that anyone would buy a GTR for the "value". If you buy a 911TT you'd break even in just a few years just because of the maintenance savings, and you get a car that is essentially bulletproof and not subject to a bunch of stupid rules. You also get a manufacturer encouraging you to track the vehicle.
None of this is to diminish the awesomeness of the GTR, it's a great performer and worthy of the praise given to it...but it isn't a value. Nothing with a $7500 brake job is a value.
10-24-2010, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Llew,Oct 19 2010, 05:52 AM
A mate of mine recently traded his 350Z for a 335 rather than paying the $2900 for new front rotors... Alot of us sit at our keyboards and think that the GT-R is an awesome car for a good price without knowing what the total cost of ownership is likely to be.
My IS-F is a lot more pricey than any other car I've owned (although not that pricey compared to a lot of cars we discuss on this site), and the maintenance costs are sort of shocking coming from my s2k. And compared to other cars in the class, they aren't bad at all. Once you get past the free maintenance period on a BMW or a Benz, I'm sure it is insane.
For example, this month alone:
1. Oil change. The IS-F takes 10 quarts (yes, 10) quarts of oil. Put synthetic in there and go to the stealership, and you're looking at $200. I personally go to valvoline because it costs $100...I could do it myself but I'm getting too old for that $hit.
2. New Tires. My tires lasted 20,000 miles which is GOOD in this class of cars...and apparently I drive like a granny. There are guys getting 10-12k out of their tires. The alignments are set to provide max performance, not great tire life. Yes you can change the alignment...but then why the hell did you buy the car? A set of RE-11s installed in 275 and 245 widths runs about $1500...if you go PS2, it's way more.
3. New brake pads. I got about 22k out of my front brake pads...and most of my mileage is on the highway. Again, lots of dudes exchange them much more frequently. If you want OEM pads, you're looking at $350 and the rotors only have 2mm of spec width loss - so chances are good you're going to get dinged for rotors every time at nearly $200 a pop as well...plus labor. The rear braks are similar in price, so a 4 wheel brake job can run you like $1200-1500 pretty easily. I personally went with carbotech pads, installing myself and I'm not touching my rotors until next time...
Anyways my point is that the maintenance intervals are way shorter on wear items and the prices are higher. Overall I'm not disappointed w/ the total cost of ownership on my car, but I have learned a lesson - never going to buy a car again without doing a full investigation of the maintenance cost just because I now realize how much it differs from car to car.
10-24-2010, 10:52 AM
#46
^^^^ Just note that there are usually lots of good aftermarket rotor pad choices that work just fine - ask any track junkie. 
I use Centric Premium rotors on my NC, they work great and run under $200 for all 4 corners.
I also recently replaced the PS2's on my M3 w/ Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics, they were around $800 or less from Tire Rack. RE-11's would have been nice, but I figured why by track day worthy tires for it if I'm not going to track it? (and I don't drive anywhere near as aggressively on the street as I do on the track). My local BMW dealer quoted my $2500 for new tires and an alignment!!!
Pads and rotors are free on the M3.
Bottom line, you can save some $$$ over what the dealer would like you to spend.
I use Centric Premium rotors on my NC, they work great and run under $200 for all 4 corners.
I also recently replaced the PS2's on my M3 w/ Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics, they were around $800 or less from Tire Rack. RE-11's would have been nice, but I figured why by track day worthy tires for it if I'm not going to track it? (and I don't drive anywhere near as aggressively on the street as I do on the track). My local BMW dealer quoted my $2500 for new tires and an alignment!!!
Pads and rotors are free on the M3.
Bottom line, you can save some $$$ over what the dealer would like you to spend.
10-24-2010, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris S,Oct 24 2010, 10:52 AM
Pads and rotors are free on the M3.
It's baked into the premium you pay when you buy a BMW.
You can totally save money over what the dealer wants you to pay, and I actively look for ways to avoid the dealer...but the aftermarket parts are more expensive than they would be on a less expensive car too.
Bigger oil capacities, bigger rotors, bigger pads...bigger bill.
10-24-2010, 01:27 PM
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Is anyone else not surprised that the GT-R costs as much as any other supercar/more to maintain? It's like those cheap printers that cost $50, but they get you back because you keep having to buy ink for it because it runs through them like a fat chick in a buffet line.
10-24-2010, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dombey,Oct 24 2010, 10:07 AM
this is so true. especially those of us in the honda camp that have experience essentially no maintenance cost on our cars.
My IS-F is a lot more pricey than any other car I've owned (although not that pricey compared to a lot of cars we discuss on this site), and the maintenance costs are sort of shocking coming from my s2k. And compared to other cars in the class, they aren't bad at all. Once you get past the free maintenance period on a BMW or a Benz, I'm sure it is insane.
For example, this month alone:
1. Oil change. The IS-F takes 10 quarts (yes, 10) quarts of oil. Put synthetic in there and go to the stealership, and you're looking at $200. I personally go to valvoline because it costs $100...I could do it myself but I'm getting too old for that $hit.
2. New Tires. My tires lasted 20,000 miles which is GOOD in this class of cars...and apparently I drive like a granny. There are guys getting 10-12k out of their tires. The alignments are set to provide max performance, not great tire life. Yes you can change the alignment...but then why the hell did you buy the car? A set of RE-11s installed in 275 and 245 widths runs about $1500...if you go PS2, it's way more.
3. New brake pads. I got about 22k out of my front brake pads...and most of my mileage is on the highway. Again, lots of dudes exchange them much more frequently. If you want OEM pads, you're looking at $350 and the rotors only have 2mm of spec width loss - so chances are good you're going to get dinged for rotors every time at nearly $200 a pop as well...plus labor. The rear braks are similar in price, so a 4 wheel brake job can run you like $1200-1500 pretty easily. I personally went with carbotech pads, installing myself and I'm not touching my rotors until next time...
Anyways my point is that the maintenance intervals are way shorter on wear items and the prices are higher. Overall I'm not disappointed w/ the total cost of ownership on my car, but I have learned a lesson - never going to buy a car again without doing a full investigation of the maintenance cost just because I now realize how much it differs from car to car.
My IS-F is a lot more pricey than any other car I've owned (although not that pricey compared to a lot of cars we discuss on this site), and the maintenance costs are sort of shocking coming from my s2k. And compared to other cars in the class, they aren't bad at all. Once you get past the free maintenance period on a BMW or a Benz, I'm sure it is insane.
For example, this month alone:
1. Oil change. The IS-F takes 10 quarts (yes, 10) quarts of oil. Put synthetic in there and go to the stealership, and you're looking at $200. I personally go to valvoline because it costs $100...I could do it myself but I'm getting too old for that $hit.
2. New Tires. My tires lasted 20,000 miles which is GOOD in this class of cars...and apparently I drive like a granny. There are guys getting 10-12k out of their tires. The alignments are set to provide max performance, not great tire life. Yes you can change the alignment...but then why the hell did you buy the car? A set of RE-11s installed in 275 and 245 widths runs about $1500...if you go PS2, it's way more.
3. New brake pads. I got about 22k out of my front brake pads...and most of my mileage is on the highway. Again, lots of dudes exchange them much more frequently. If you want OEM pads, you're looking at $350 and the rotors only have 2mm of spec width loss - so chances are good you're going to get dinged for rotors every time at nearly $200 a pop as well...plus labor. The rear braks are similar in price, so a 4 wheel brake job can run you like $1200-1500 pretty easily. I personally went with carbotech pads, installing myself and I'm not touching my rotors until next time...
Anyways my point is that the maintenance intervals are way shorter on wear items and the prices are higher. Overall I'm not disappointed w/ the total cost of ownership on my car, but I have learned a lesson - never going to buy a car again without doing a full investigation of the maintenance cost just because I now realize how much it differs from car to car.