2009 911 facelift revealed--DSG
06-07-2008, 08:50 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Chris S,Jun 7 2008, 10:07 PM
I like Porsche's evolutionary styling, it helps keep older models looking good instead of dated.
For all the naysayers, you're not part of Porsche's target market - they're making serious money selling them, and many of their customers take the "There is no substitue" mantra pretty seriously.
For all the naysayers, you're not part of Porsche's target market - they're making serious money selling them, and many of their customers take the "There is no substitue" mantra pretty seriously.
I cannot explain it, as I have always been a "bang for the buck" kinda guy. I know that the c6 beats it single handedly, the evo 9 probably beats it, etc, etc, but man, everytime I see that beautiful body, and hear that engine, I want one, so bad, overpriced options be damned.
maybe there's a term for it, the "Porsche effect" ?
06-07-2008, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Platinum,Jun 8 2008, 09:41 AM
So is this their answer to the GTR? 
06-07-2008, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MDXLuvr,Jun 8 2008, 02:26 AM
It cracks me up that S2000 owners who haven't seen any increase in HP in 8 years complain about the iconic 911.
The 2009 MY 911 C2S produces 8.5% more HP, has PDK, launch control(with sports chrono) and gives u 7.8% more MPG. I don't see how that can be bad. If you are looking for a revolutionary exterior styling that u might as well look somewhere else. The 911's exterior will always have minor exterior changes. Most 911 owners prefer it that way.
BTW, here is press release kit PDK file on all the upgrades(where I got the % data and launch control info).
http://www.drivers-republic.com/pdf/DR_911...e_Cabrio_GB.pdf
The 2009 MY 911 C2S produces 8.5% more HP, has PDK, launch control(with sports chrono) and gives u 7.8% more MPG. I don't see how that can be bad. If you are looking for a revolutionary exterior styling that u might as well look somewhere else. The 911's exterior will always have minor exterior changes. Most 911 owners prefer it that way.
BTW, here is press release kit PDK file on all the upgrades(where I got the % data and launch control info).
http://www.drivers-republic.com/pdf/DR_911...e_Cabrio_GB.pdf
Carrera
IN 1,415kg CarreraS
IN 1,425kg Carrera is +15kg and S is +5kg
06-08-2008, 05:16 AM
#46
Originally Posted by jackalope,Jun 7 2008, 10:50 PM
I'll buy this...despite my better judgement, I am in absolute love with the Cayman S.
I cannot explain it, as I have always been a "bang for the buck" kinda guy. I know that the c6 beats it single handedly, the evo 9 probably beats it, etc, etc, but man, everytime I see that beautiful body, and hear that engine, I want one, so bad, overpriced options be damned.
maybe there's a term for it, the "Porsche effect" ?
I cannot explain it, as I have always been a "bang for the buck" kinda guy. I know that the c6 beats it single handedly, the evo 9 probably beats it, etc, etc, but man, everytime I see that beautiful body, and hear that engine, I want one, so bad, overpriced options be damned.
maybe there's a term for it, the "Porsche effect" ?
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...0&#entry9352321
06-08-2008, 09:33 AM
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[QUOTE=PedalFaster,Jun 7 2008, 08:51 AM] The difference in my mind is that I can feel and use the difference between 240 hp and 300 hp, but I have no idea how the difference between 385 hp and 430 hp would be useful to me on the street in any way other than bragging rights.
06-08-2008, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Scot,Jun 6 2008, 10:33 AM
like people above.... i am not sure I would even notice any difference if someone didn't say this was a facelift.... doh!
This is a 911 facelift, not a major redesign. Just a chance for Porsche to fine-tune some of the details just like Honda did with the S2000.
06-08-2008, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Burgman,Jun 8 2008, 11:16 AM
Same could be said about the S2000 when they did a facelift in 2004. I doubt most people noticed unless the were Honda enthusiast.
This is a 911 facelift, not a major redesign. Just a chance for Porsche to fine-tune some of the details just like Honda did with the S2000.
This is a 911 facelift, not a major redesign. Just a chance for Porsche to fine-tune some of the details just like Honda did with the S2000.
06-08-2008, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanman,Jun 6 2008, 11:33 PM
The S2000 is underpowered for what it is today, especially with the 370Z/G37 being 330 hp, the upcoming 300+ hp Hyundai Genesis, Mustang going to 315+ hp, Boxster S going to 300 hp. Who said i the S2000 isn't underpowered ? When it first came out, it was much competitive, when the Boxster S had 250 hp, and the M Roadster had 240 hp. So where you got that we don't flame the S2000, I have no idea.
Like the S2000, the 911 has failed to keep up with it's competitors. In 2000 the M3 was sporting 240 hp, the Vette was at 300 hp, etc. At the time the 911 was at 296 hp. Since then the landscape has changed, with the Vette at 430 hp, the M3 at 414 hp, the AMG C63 at 451 hp, etc. In regards to the Japanese lower end competitors.
The base model Carrera is going to have 345 hp. The new 370Z & G37 are now at 330 hp. That's pretty damn close for a car that is less than 1/2 the price of the Porsche. That's not the way it used to be.
Of course we would choose a Porsche over a Vette, but that is it's most natural competitor. 15-20 years ago Porsche (base model) & Corvette were quite comparable in performance. That has jumped. Porsche needed this direct injection hp bump. Even then they are still falling behind. Back in the day, the 996 GT3 was comparable to the Z06 in performance on the track, the 996 was comparable to the Vette. Now, the GT3 would be ruined by the Z06 and you need to step up to the Carrera S to have any chance against a regular Vette.
It's not a question of which one you want. It's a question of why has performance of Porsche fallen behind what used to be it's main competitor.
385 is not little, but when compared to 430 (436 with the optional exhaust) it falls short. It's not about the money, it's about comparable performance to your competitors.
Porsches used to be THE sportscars back in the day. Today, they are just "me too" along with the other sportscars out there.
It's not like I just hate Porsche. I OWNED one & liked it quite a bit. They need to stop raping their customers & drop the pretenses. Drop the 3.4 L on the Boxster S/Cayman S, transfer the 3.6's to that line, & put the 3.8 in the Carrera line period. Stop dicking around. The technology is already there.
Like the S2000, the 911 has failed to keep up with it's competitors. In 2000 the M3 was sporting 240 hp, the Vette was at 300 hp, etc. At the time the 911 was at 296 hp. Since then the landscape has changed, with the Vette at 430 hp, the M3 at 414 hp, the AMG C63 at 451 hp, etc. In regards to the Japanese lower end competitors.
The base model Carrera is going to have 345 hp. The new 370Z & G37 are now at 330 hp. That's pretty damn close for a car that is less than 1/2 the price of the Porsche. That's not the way it used to be.
Of course we would choose a Porsche over a Vette, but that is it's most natural competitor. 15-20 years ago Porsche (base model) & Corvette were quite comparable in performance. That has jumped. Porsche needed this direct injection hp bump. Even then they are still falling behind. Back in the day, the 996 GT3 was comparable to the Z06 in performance on the track, the 996 was comparable to the Vette. Now, the GT3 would be ruined by the Z06 and you need to step up to the Carrera S to have any chance against a regular Vette.
It's not a question of which one you want. It's a question of why has performance of Porsche fallen behind what used to be it's main competitor.
385 is not little, but when compared to 430 (436 with the optional exhaust) it falls short. It's not about the money, it's about comparable performance to your competitors.
Porsches used to be THE sportscars back in the day. Today, they are just "me too" along with the other sportscars out there.
It's not like I just hate Porsche. I OWNED one & liked it quite a bit. They need to stop raping their customers & drop the pretenses. Drop the 3.4 L on the Boxster S/Cayman S, transfer the 3.6's to that line, & put the 3.8 in the Carrera line period. Stop dicking around. The technology is already there.
The 911 has been an evolving car its entire life, all the way back to the 356. The 911 is not even close to the comparatively stagnant development life of the S2000. There have been countless factory specials, countless races won, countless desirable models, timeless greats like the 959 and 930 slantnose, countless improvements, need I go on? Only the engine, basic shape and internal layout have remained for such a long time, but then you can say this of the Corvette all the way back to 1953.
Power is a non-issue too. They keep ekeing out more power from a 6-cylinder design that is well over 30 years old. By contrast, within 20 years the BMW M3's cylinder count doubled. I could frankly give a sh-- that the 911's engine is still in the 3-4.0 displacement range, with only 6 cylinders. Don't know if you noticed, but the horsepower war is probably not going to continue much longer with $4-5/gallon gas. You think we'll see the days of a 1000+ hp Vette from the factory? I sure don't see it.
Power is just that: power. It can only do one thing; it can do it well, but it's not the only thing. Also, there was a time when the 911 was comparatively laughable in power compared to other cars, and yet it still survived: It was called the 60s. Look at the power ratings of the gamut of American cars (including the Vette) from that timeframe, and look at the 911's output. Your argument is about price/power ratio, and frankly it's an argument that fails given an historical outlook.
The thing started with a Volkswagen engine, and today it is one of the most sought after cars ever. I don't see the problem you're seeing. I don't see the stagnation or the developmental disinterest. I see a car and a company that continues to sell, a company mighty enough even to buy one of the larger manufacturers in the world (if German law permitted it).