steve c

A fair point, the mistake I might be making here is in comparing the Acura to the LS430, 545, E500 etc. But then, we don't know where the RL will debut in terms of price and given the fact that the current car is a 45 grand car; 50 or so would not be out of place which does place it in that realm. The VTEC.net article took a leap of faith in comparing the car with cars that are priced similarly to what they *think* the RL may cost. It's certainly not a journalistic way to go about telling the story, but then they are not journalists, the bias is evident and accepted by all who read their stuff.

And for 5k you could make a ratty old mustang do circles around them both, but you would still be comparing apples to oranges.

In a direct subjective comparison I would venture to guess 90 percent of the folks out there would choose a Geman marque over the S2000 if the price was equal. You and me and other S2000 owners are well aware of the performance the S2000 offers and are willing to overlook the shortcomings, but I would imagine price plays a large part in this compromising.

I'm not sure where if at all the TL and TSX outperform their competition, but you seem to be fat dumb and happy presenting such unsubstantiated opinion as fact time and again, so keep at it, repeat it enough times and someone is sure to believe it.

Please show me where. I have an opinion, I can delve into the reasons behind my opinion without calling people names, how is this combative? Because I am unwilling to overlook the reactionaries trying to sell a line of unsubstantiated bullshit as fact? Okay.

As Rai earlier pointed out so well, you are probably correct.

Yes but we know virtually nothing about the car or what it will cost, which makes much of this thread pointless yet still entertaining.

Ckcrigger

See, has turned into a world (or at least a ckcrigger, luv3rev, rai, phoenix9999) vs Steve C thread.

I wonder why that is?

Steve, I used to think that you were just critical and that was fine.

But without getting too personal:

Do you ever stop to think that you might have a personality disorder?
Take this test.

Seriously.

Ckcrigger

Since steve made a very mature response below.
I have erased this previous post.

steve c

I probably have lots of disorders.

For the record I don't think Rai is anti anything or anyone, he just has a critical mind, builds an opinion based on a solid foundation and does not let stuff he thinks is wrong go unchallenged -- all at an adult level.

As a side to all of this I recieved my Car and Driver in the mail today.

In a comparison the TSX placed first; yet the numbers would indicate otherwise as it did not lead in any of the performance categories outside of the slalom. This plays well into many statements made in this thread. Acura is building cars capable of competing and in some reviews besting the competition -- but the final ranking is a subjective one, not one based on the numbers.

I still believe that when discussing the RL in subjective terms the German cars are the class leaders here -- but that is jumping the gun as I have not driven the car myself nor have we had more than a small smattering of reviews. Time will tell.

LUV2REV

What's with you and old ratty Mustangs ? Fond memories of a past love ? Would this be Steve C's direct subjective comparison ? Tell me why you think 90% of the populus would select a German Brand over the S2000 ? What shortcomings do you have with your S2000 ? I like mine the way it is, I never knew my car had shortcomings, that's why I bought it. Obviously you still have your head up your ass, I made a viable correlation in my last post in regards to the TSX outperforming it's competition (the benchmark car for this segment). You love singing your own song don't you ?

Fat, Dumb and Happy.

steve c

What you made was an apples to oranges comparison; any modified car can be made faster than any other car.

Every car has compromises, every car.

You should read the C&D RL article in this months magazine. There is an interesting Timex to Rolex analogy you might get a kick out of.

rai

I'm not against Steve. He has a lot of knowledge about cars. I don't agree with him all the time, but he seems to be open minded. I think he may tend to go against the pro-Honda lobby too strongly at times.

But as we've said, we don't have the price data for the new RL, but I've read quoted "fully loaded for under $50K" That seems about right.

Acura has a comparison generator for the old RL. To get a comprable equiped car here's the price:

530i : $57,700 (225-hp)
E320: $54,000 (221-hp)
Jaguar S-type: $49,770 (235-hp)


My one gripe is with the RL is it's weight. It's 3900 that's the same as a LS430.

The 5-series, E-class, S-type, A6 all are classified as "mid-size" as is the RL, but the RL's weight is (to me) in the "full-size" category. The RL weighs 100-400 lbs more than the mid-size rivals.

NFRs2000NYC

In my experience, light sedans make for shitty highway cruising. I like big heavy sedans for quiet, and undisturbed ride.

ellisnc

[QUOTE=steve c,Sep 2 2004, 05:28 PM]
The 3 series is and has been the leader of the luxury sedan class for over a decade. This is not something that is simply

chrisfranklin

as an outsider who just recently started posted on this forum after quite some time of just reading...
i can relate to stevec's way of looking @ things, as well as some others.
what is annoying are the 'fanboys'.
"no shortcomings in the s2k"?
that is subjective, to say the least. so because stevec feels there are some you get angry?

when i traded in my 02 protege5 (my 1st new car ever) i was looking for something in the sub30k range that was fun, quick, and nice.
i was all lined up for the tsx, happier than a pig in $h!te
unfortunately, the dealer could not locate my color choice right away, and i had to wait.
waiting turned into more shopping, which turned into an sti.
slightly more than 30k, but worlds more fun.
since then, i have made it a point to learn more about all different cars, as i realize that even my sti has many shortcomings. relative to 32k, not so many, but still some nonetheless.

i used to be of the uneducated masses that always thought fwd was inherently safer, no matter what, than rwd.
awd, while surely safer, was not that popular when i was growing up.
after learning more about cars and whatnot, i re-evaluated my stance on the new tl.
i would not pick one up for myself, least not if it was my only car.
maybe for the wifey, since she's always drivin' miss daisy anyways, but not me.
260 or whatever hp thru the front wheels... no thanks.
for the tsx, fwd is ok, rwd or awd would just be too friggen cool @ that price point. only comp for that is the new legacy gt.

i surely hope the rl's awd system is a sign of things to come.
i also hope that honda/acura expands their rwd lineup outside of the s2k & nsx.

and all the blah, blah about comparing modded cars, race cars, etc. is pointless.
contrary to unpopular stupidity, the majority of car buyers do not go out and mimic the set-ups and financial investments of sponsored race cars.
heck even stevec's rich friends can agree with that

i'm not even sure, this response was totally on topic for this thread.