1999 Civic Si vs 2012 Civic Si
06-20-2011, 06:09 AM
#51
Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.' timestamp='1308321983' post='20692797
I have an EP3 that I drive every day. It seriously is a better car for driving around town than the EM1. It is so much more practical, the interior is way better, and it is faster, I don't care what the stats say.
I'm not 16 years old so I don't go around street racing people, but I did have the opportunity to "race" against an EM1 on private property and the EP3 is just consistently faster than the EM1. But here's the thing, they both suck balls at accelerating. They are fast enough to get out of their own way and, unlike most economy cars, you can pass people on the highway with relative ease. But they both are kind of a joke in terms of acceleration.
Another thing, the engine in the EP3 is odd. It has considerably more torque than the B16 but it feels, well, just kind of weird. It feels like it's torque relative to its power is askew and when you accelerate, you feel the torque and intuitively think, "Ok, here comes the power," but then you hit the 6800 RPM redline and realize it's never coming.
As mentioned, the shifter, seats, and steering wheel make the car worth driving. I also happen to really like the fact that it sits so high. Naturally, the hatchback is awesome as well.
Lastly, if I was picking one of these cars to make into a track car, sure, I'd probably pick the EM1. However, I'd never choose either of them over a ton of other cars (hence the turbo Miata in my garage). The EM1 does feel more "tossable" and I would generally give it the nod for handling, but in real world, "Holy shit I just had to swerve around a car and go over a speed bump at the same time," kind of handling, the EP3 is way better.
The EP3 is just a different way to accomplish basically the same thing performance wise, while giving you a much better experience while doing the mundane parts of motoring.
I'm not 16 years old so I don't go around street racing people, but I did have the opportunity to "race" against an EM1 on private property and the EP3 is just consistently faster than the EM1. But here's the thing, they both suck balls at accelerating. They are fast enough to get out of their own way and, unlike most economy cars, you can pass people on the highway with relative ease. But they both are kind of a joke in terms of acceleration.
Another thing, the engine in the EP3 is odd. It has considerably more torque than the B16 but it feels, well, just kind of weird. It feels like it's torque relative to its power is askew and when you accelerate, you feel the torque and intuitively think, "Ok, here comes the power," but then you hit the 6800 RPM redline and realize it's never coming.
As mentioned, the shifter, seats, and steering wheel make the car worth driving. I also happen to really like the fact that it sits so high. Naturally, the hatchback is awesome as well.
Lastly, if I was picking one of these cars to make into a track car, sure, I'd probably pick the EM1. However, I'd never choose either of them over a ton of other cars (hence the turbo Miata in my garage). The EM1 does feel more "tossable" and I would generally give it the nod for handling, but in real world, "Holy shit I just had to swerve around a car and go over a speed bump at the same time," kind of handling, the EP3 is way better.
The EP3 is just a different way to accomplish basically the same thing performance wise, while giving you a much better experience while doing the mundane parts of motoring.
Oh snap. A whole fender? Damn, dog. That shit be mad fast.
Come on. They are both still really slow cars. I guess I'd just rather have the nicer really slow car.
06-21-2011, 01:08 PM
#52
I have an EP3 that I drive every day. It seriously is a better car for driving around town than the EM1. It is so much more practical, the interior is way better, and it is faster, I don't care what the stats say.
I'm not 16 years old so I don't go around street racing people, but I did have the opportunity to "race" against an EM1 on private property and the EP3 is just consistently faster than the EM1. But here's the thing, they both suck balls at accelerating. They are fast enough to get out of their own way and, unlike most economy cars, you can pass people on the highway with relative ease. But they both are kind of a joke in terms of acceleration.
Another thing, the engine in the EP3 is odd. It has considerably more torque than the B16 but it feels, well, just kind of weird. It feels like it's torque relative to its power is askew and when you accelerate, you feel the torque and intuitively think, "Ok, here comes the power," but then you hit the 6800 RPM redline and realize it's never coming.
As mentioned, the shifter, seats, and steering wheel make the car worth driving. I also happen to really like the fact that it sits so high. Naturally, the hatchback is awesome as well.
Lastly, if I was picking one of these cars to make into a track car, sure, I'd probably pick the EM1. However, I'd never choose either of them over a ton of other cars (hence the turbo Miata in my garage). The EM1 does feel more "tossable" and I would generally give it the nod for handling, but in real world, "Holy shit I just had to swerve around a car and go over a speed bump at the same time," kind of handling, the EP3 is way better.
The EP3 is just a different way to accomplish basically the same thing performance wise, while giving you a much better experience while doing the mundane parts of motoring.
I'm not 16 years old so I don't go around street racing people, but I did have the opportunity to "race" against an EM1 on private property and the EP3 is just consistently faster than the EM1. But here's the thing, they both suck balls at accelerating. They are fast enough to get out of their own way and, unlike most economy cars, you can pass people on the highway with relative ease. But they both are kind of a joke in terms of acceleration.
Another thing, the engine in the EP3 is odd. It has considerably more torque than the B16 but it feels, well, just kind of weird. It feels like it's torque relative to its power is askew and when you accelerate, you feel the torque and intuitively think, "Ok, here comes the power," but then you hit the 6800 RPM redline and realize it's never coming.
As mentioned, the shifter, seats, and steering wheel make the car worth driving. I also happen to really like the fact that it sits so high. Naturally, the hatchback is awesome as well.
Lastly, if I was picking one of these cars to make into a track car, sure, I'd probably pick the EM1. However, I'd never choose either of them over a ton of other cars (hence the turbo Miata in my garage). The EM1 does feel more "tossable" and I would generally give it the nod for handling, but in real world, "Holy shit I just had to swerve around a car and go over a speed bump at the same time," kind of handling, the EP3 is way better.
The EP3 is just a different way to accomplish basically the same thing performance wise, while giving you a much better experience while doing the mundane parts of motoring.
I completely agree with you assessment, the engine is seriously exactly how you described it. It's so smooth that I found myself bouncing off the rev limiter when I was merging once because I wasn't paying attention a couple of times (did alot of 150 mile 2am sprints in the car in college), the power is just flat and smooth. But like you said, it does the fun things well, for me it was as good if not better than the EM1, but it really shines in the mundane things, so as all overall package that I had to live with 24/7 as my only car putting on 25K a year, it's a no brainer which car I'd rather have. And between the EP3 and the current SI, I'd rather have the current Si simply because of that engine. If I could get the EP3 with the correct K20, then I'd stick with the EP3 overall all three.
06-22-2011, 02:18 PM
#54
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I don't know if it would've been a big hit, people didn't like the way it looked. I loved it from the first time I saw it but a lower stance from the factory would've made it look a lot more like a hot hatch instead of a small mini van, and maybe sold more. I really think that it was the looks that killed the sales though, not the engine. When it came out, the only real competitor was the SVT Focus, so the power really wasn't bad. Today anything under 200 just seems weak, but the EP3 came out almost 10 years ago now and 160 was pretty solid for an econo car.
06-23-2011, 06:52 AM
#56
I didn't even think about that, lol.
06-23-2011, 08:38 AM
#57
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I really think that it was the looks that killed the sales though, not the engine. When it came out, the only real competitor was the SVT Focus, so the power really wasn't bad. Today anything under 200 just seems weak, but the EP3 came out almost 10 years ago now and 160 was pretty solid for an econo car.
Honda had done well with Si's in the past with long flat roofs, but for many of us, the EP3 just could not hide it's look of a European Econobox.
And when ever I think about the EP3, I cannot help but cry a little over Honda's lack of giving us the European Civic Type R, FN2 was a magical creation, but by 2007 Honda was already starting to get retarded
I lust over this car so bad!!!
06-23-2011, 10:41 AM
#60
Originally Posted by woodburn' timestamp='1308723448' post='20707107
Dont get me wrong i like the ep3 but it needs the right engine because it feels slow. If it had the right k20 in there it would have been a very big hit.
You nailed it right on the head, the looks never caught on and therefore it never became trendy. People knock the suspension, weight, etc but yet they like the RSX. Furthermore, these same people would rather buy a 105hp car and invest tons of money to make the same power, so power is not the argument. The car just wasn't a looker, and alot of people who regard themselves as hardcore enthusiasts can't get pass that, so they use other ways to justify what is otherwise a personal preference. The EP3 weighs about the same, handles as well, has more utility, more practical, and cheaper than a comparably equipped base rsx. Much of the same logic can be applied to the nsx but reverse.