1999 Civic Si vs 2012 Civic Si
06-14-2011, 01:28 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k' timestamp='1308073884' post='20681650
[quote name='JonBoy' timestamp='1307994978' post='20678133']
I'll be the first to admit I'm still in love with the slow, outdated S2000 and would gladly buy another if the right opportunity presented itself, despite the fact that an MS3 would kill it at the track or a Mustang GT would leave it for dead in just about any performance contest...
I'll be the first to admit I'm still in love with the slow, outdated S2000 and would gladly buy another if the right opportunity presented itself, despite the fact that an MS3 would kill it at the track or a Mustang GT would leave it for dead in just about any performance contest...
The older models are flat out more fun. I own a '92 Integra GS-R which is very similar to the EM1 Si (double wishbone suspension, B17A (near identical to the B16A) and light weight). Stock 0-60 was 6.7 seconds and 15.4 quarter mile so color me not impressed with the new Si. Oh and still gets up to 33 mpg on the highway.
Also, the old models wouldn't even be "legal" today with their lower levels of safety equipment, poorer crash resistance and the like. I don't disagree that they can be more fun but they're also significantly outdated in some serious ways.
[/quote]
Send me $50!
The S2000 CR is more than a second faster around VIR than either iteration of the MS3
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to_2011_page_8
06-14-2011, 03:04 PM
#22
I've driven the EM1, owned an EP3, and driven the newer civic si. I don't get the fascination with the EM1, and I can still remember them selling for a discount new. Fun to drive? Yes, but that was purely subjective. Personally, I always found the shifter to be too low and just the overall car too rattly. I loved the EP3, I felt that chassis to be more predictable and refined, car overall was just a better car and I found the driving dynamics once you get used to it to be loads better. If you were to drive both cars for just 30 minutes and that's it, the EM1 would leave a better impression, but after living with both, you'd prefer the EP3 or the newer civics. Yeah, alot of people have fond memories of their EM1s, but having been part of that generation I also remember how many people were quick to move on from those cars especially when the RSX, wrx, Zs, etc were all coming out. So I def would chalk this up to nostalgia.
06-14-2011, 03:12 PM
#23
I had a EP3, a '92 Si hatch, an '02 RSX Type S, '07 Si Sedan, S2000. And my favorite, believe it or not, was not the S2k, it was the Type S. Keep in mind this is from a DD perspective as fun on the weekends is done on two wheels in my house.
The EP3 really needed the Type S engine. Had Honda done that (I know I know, cannibalized their own sales of the RSX) it would have been a fantastic car. The 160HP 5 speed was a dud and I sold mine within a year. I rode in an EP3 with a motor swap (Type S engine, whatever the engine was designated) and it was a different car. Honda's f ups reach back a while.
The EP3 really needed the Type S engine. Had Honda done that (I know I know, cannibalized their own sales of the RSX) it would have been a fantastic car. The 160HP 5 speed was a dud and I sold mine within a year. I rode in an EP3 with a motor swap (Type S engine, whatever the engine was designated) and it was a different car. Honda's f ups reach back a while.
06-14-2011, 03:33 PM
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I've driven the EM1, owned an EP3, and driven the newer civic si. I don't get the fascination with the EM1, and I can still remember them selling for a discount new. Fun to drive? Yes, but that was purely subjective. Personally, I always found the shifter to be too low and just the overall car too rattly. I loved the EP3, I felt that chassis to be more predictable and refined, car overall was just a better car and I found the driving dynamics once you get used to it to be loads better. If you were to drive both cars for just 30 minutes and that's it, the EM1 would leave a better impression, but after living with both, you'd prefer the EP3 or the newer civics. Yeah, alot of people have fond memories of their EM1s, but having been part of that generation I also remember how many people were quick to move on from those cars especially when the RSX, wrx, Zs, etc were all coming out. So I def would chalk this up to nostalgia.
06-14-2011, 06:25 PM
#25
I've driven the EM1, owned an EP3, and driven the newer civic si. I don't get the fascination with the EM1, and I can still remember them selling for a discount new. Fun to drive? Yes, but that was purely subjective. Personally, I always found the shifter to be too low and just the overall car too rattly. I loved the EP3, I felt that chassis to be more predictable and refined, car overall was just a better car and I found the driving dynamics once you get used to it to be loads better. If you were to drive both cars for just 30 minutes and that's it, the EM1 would leave a better impression, but after living with both, you'd prefer the EP3 or the newer civics. Yeah, alot of people have fond memories of their EM1s, but having been part of that generation I also remember how many people were quick to move on from those cars especially when the RSX, wrx, Zs, etc were all coming out. So I def would chalk this up to nostalgia.
06-14-2011, 07:22 PM
#26
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I can understand adding more torque is desirable, but NOT at the expense of a lowered rpm's. Honda is rapidly losing its identity with their current lineup; I mean even mustangs come with 7K redline now.
06-14-2011, 09:28 PM
#27
Originally Posted by TheDonEffect' timestamp='1308092656' post='20682805
I've driven the EM1, owned an EP3, and driven the newer civic si. I don't get the fascination with the EM1, and I can still remember them selling for a discount new. Fun to drive? Yes, but that was purely subjective. Personally, I always found the shifter to be too low and just the overall car too rattly. I loved the EP3, I felt that chassis to be more predictable and refined, car overall was just a better car and I found the driving dynamics once you get used to it to be loads better. If you were to drive both cars for just 30 minutes and that's it, the EM1 would leave a better impression, but after living with both, you'd prefer the EP3 or the newer civics. Yeah, alot of people have fond memories of their EM1s, but having been part of that generation I also remember how many people were quick to move on from those cars especially when the RSX, wrx, Zs, etc were all coming out. So I def would chalk this up to nostalgia.
Call me biased, but I never did say it felt more raw, jsut that I personally preferred it over time. And yes, you will see alot more older hondas on the track, because they are much cheaper. But notice as ep3 prices begin to drop more and more, and the k series swap gets more and more popular, demand for those cars will start to climb as well. The EP3 just lacked the type s motor, had it ocme with it, totally different story. I guess Honda was wrong in thinking that hey, we;ll make the same power, more torque, drop the redline by 1200 but have a better power band, smoother engine, make it more boost friendly (something alot of B16 folks do), and oh yeah, make it run on regular gas.
06-15-2011, 12:08 AM
#28
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^Its dropped pretty low already in price, yet you don't see much K swapped EP3's. Most people who do K swaps would choose to drop it in an EG/EK or Integra rather than in an EP3
06-15-2011, 06:19 AM
#29
Originally Posted by JonBoy' timestamp='1308077268' post='20681929
[quote name='WolfpackS2k' timestamp='1308073884' post='20681650']
[quote name='JonBoy' timestamp='1307994978' post='20678133']
I'll be the first to admit I'm still in love with the slow, outdated S2000 and would gladly buy another if the right opportunity presented itself, despite the fact that an MS3 would kill it at the track or a Mustang GT would leave it for dead in just about any performance contest...
[quote name='JonBoy' timestamp='1307994978' post='20678133']
I'll be the first to admit I'm still in love with the slow, outdated S2000 and would gladly buy another if the right opportunity presented itself, despite the fact that an MS3 would kill it at the track or a Mustang GT would leave it for dead in just about any performance contest...
The older models are flat out more fun. I own a '92 Integra GS-R which is very similar to the EM1 Si (double wishbone suspension, B17A (near identical to the B16A) and light weight). Stock 0-60 was 6.7 seconds and 15.4 quarter mile so color me not impressed with the new Si. Oh and still gets up to 33 mpg on the highway.
Also, the old models wouldn't even be "legal" today with their lower levels of safety equipment, poorer crash resistance and the like. I don't disagree that they can be more fun but they're also significantly outdated in some serious ways.
[/quote]
Send me $50!
The S2000 CR is more than a second faster around VIR than either iteration of the MS3
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to_2011_page_8
[/quote]
I said S2000, not S2000 CR and those times were not done on the same day, either. The same list shows a 335i being 3s faster than the lighter, more tossable 135i with equal power levels.....on different days.
06-15-2011, 08:09 AM
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Exactly, I had way more into my k20a swapped ek hatch than the cost of a used EP3. EM1's and DC2's still fetch quite the price in good condition and I have a hard time seeing the EP3's value hold up like that.