University Insiders: Illegal Immigrants Get Affirmative Action
06-02-2011, 09:37 AM
#151
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tustin, California
Posts: 2,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mrjulius' timestamp='1306961099' post='20639308
"Their urban destinations, their numbers, and perhaps a fairly basic human antipathy towards foreigners led to the emergence of a second wave of organized xenophobia. By the 1890s, many Americans, particularly from the ranks of the well-off, white, native-born, considered immigration to pose a serious danger to the nation’s health and security. In 1893 a group of them formed the Immigration Restriction League, and it, along with other similarly inclined organizations, began to press Congress for severe curtailment of foreign immigration."
History repeats itself.
History repeats itself.
Nonsense. I see no action on the part of Congress now that will result in "severe curtailment of foreign immigration." Show me any actual reduction in immigration, whether legal or illegal.
06-02-2011, 09:39 AM
#152
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: SFV
Posts: 17,288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mrjulius' timestamp='1306961099' post='20639308
"Their urban destinations, their numbers, and perhaps a fairly basic human antipathy towards foreigners led to the emergence of a second wave of organized xenophobia. By the 1890s, many Americans, particularly from the ranks of the well-off, white, native-born, considered immigration to pose a serious danger to the nation’s health and security. In 1893 a group of them formed the Immigration Restriction League, and it, along with other similarly inclined organizations, began to press Congress for severe curtailment of foreign immigration."
History repeats itself.
History repeats itself.
Nonsense. I see no action on the part of Congress now that will result in "severe curtailment of foreign immigration." Show me any actual reduction in immigration, whether legal or illegal.
06-02-2011, 09:51 AM
#153
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by herrjr' timestamp='1307035828' post='20642370
[quote name='mrjulius' timestamp='1306961099' post='20639308']
"Their urban destinations, their numbers, and perhaps a fairly basic human antipathy towards foreigners led to the emergence of a second wave of organized xenophobia. By the 1890s, many Americans, particularly from the ranks of the well-off, white, native-born, considered immigration to pose a serious danger to the nation’s health and security. In 1893 a group of them formed the Immigration Restriction League, and it, along with other similarly inclined organizations, began to press Congress for severe curtailment of foreign immigration."
History repeats itself.
"Their urban destinations, their numbers, and perhaps a fairly basic human antipathy towards foreigners led to the emergence of a second wave of organized xenophobia. By the 1890s, many Americans, particularly from the ranks of the well-off, white, native-born, considered immigration to pose a serious danger to the nation’s health and security. In 1893 a group of them formed the Immigration Restriction League, and it, along with other similarly inclined organizations, began to press Congress for severe curtailment of foreign immigration."
History repeats itself.
Nonsense. I see no action on the part of Congress now that will result in "severe curtailment of foreign immigration." Show me any actual reduction in immigration, whether legal or illegal.
[/quote]
Obviously I read into that, since Congress BEFORE actually did curtail immigration (1924 Johnson-Reed Act). Apparently, "rich, white racists" hold no more sway in this country, except the ones that happen to be in Hollywood.
06-02-2011, 09:54 AM
#154
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 9,845
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I live in a predominantly "white" neighborhood and most of my neighbors employ illegal Mexicans for monthly gardening and pool services. Not Southern Americans, Mexicans. I pay two Mexicans for my gardening and pool services as well.
I would like to know what Herrjr and 05TurboS2k think about most of us employing illegals to do our gardening and pool services because they offer the cheapest prices. Keep in mind we pay them in cash.
I would like to know what Herrjr and 05TurboS2k think about most of us employing illegals to do our gardening and pool services because they offer the cheapest prices. Keep in mind we pay them in cash.
I haven't worked in a while...how much cash are we talking about?
I'll do it -- but a few stipulations.
As an American, I'm going to need you to provide me with a safe work environment (shade, cool beverages, snack table) and 30 minute breaks every four hours of work.
I'll probably quit half-way through because I'll find some aspect of your job that I find completely intolerable, but even if I don't, I'm going to do a crappy job you'll wish you had just cut the lawn yourself...or just paid a neighborhood kid to do it.
I'll also charge you 3 times as much as I have overhead to cover...but I'm getting ahead of myself. You'll need to speak with my attorney first to hammer out the finer points of my compensation.
Or have your HR dept do it -- whatever is easier for you.
06-02-2011, 09:58 AM
#155
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Edit: I'll try to make a point that we all reap the benefits of illegal immigration.
I live in a predominantly "white" neighborhood and most of my neighbors employ illegal Mexicans for monthly gardening and pool services. Not Southern Americans, Mexicans. I pay two Mexicans for my gardening and pool services as well.
I would like to know what Herrjr and 05TurboS2k think about most of us employing illegals to do our gardening and pool services because they offer the cheapest prices. Keep in mind we pay them in cash.
[/quote]
You get the same reply that I gave cvjoint, that just because some of the group in question offer "benefits," that not all do. Yet ALL cost the state of CA.
I do my own gardening.
I don't have a pool.
06-02-2011, 11:25 AM
#156
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who made what blanketing statement?
My claim was not that every illegal immigrant is like Edwin Ramos, but that some are.
My claim is that illegal aliens cost the state of CA money; they do.
My claim is that anyone who is in the United States without the proper documentation, is an illegal alien, which by definition they are.
My claim was not that every illegal immigrant is like Edwin Ramos, but that some are.
My claim is that illegal aliens cost the state of CA money; they do.
My claim is that anyone who is in the United States without the proper documentation, is an illegal alien, which by definition they are.
Here, I'll tackle 1:
"My claim is that illegal aliens cost the state of CA money; they do."
Sincerely doubt it. The low wages immigrants are paid more than make up for the fact that they don't contribute in taxes. There also enough clauses for qualifying for safety nets, grants, scholarships that most illegals don't qualify. Most illegals also wouldn't dare apply for fear of getting deported. The value of work/$ is a lot higher for an illegal then it is for your same skill level citizen, even after you account for contributions to IRS, pension plans etc. Give aliens full rights as an option and they will take it. Why not? Same work, better benefits. Then when you do get a chance to pick up a green card you pay into the system. Out of that bellow minimum wage job they find a way to pay thousands for being illegal. Who's benefiting?
Here is the problem with low wage America. They want a minimum wage, yet they don't have the skills and work ethic to deserve it. So then you impose a minimum wage. That's fine, but businesses react by going to the black market. Take the black market away (evict all illegals). What do you get? Outsourcing. Then you wonder why the state has budget problems. You can only force rich people and businesses to pay so much over what you are worth. They ALWAYS find ways to go around, whether that means replacing a no skill worker with a machine, or paying under the table, or outsourcing. That's because they have the means to do it. We live in an industrialized, globalized world.
You want to get rid of illegals, fine, it won't solve your problem. The problem is laziness and entitlement of low skilled citizens. Remove the minimum wage, see what they are worth.
06-02-2011, 02:50 PM
#157
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by herrjr' timestamp='1307031841' post='20642079
Who made what blanketing statement?
My claim was not that every illegal immigrant is like Edwin Ramos, but that some are.
My claim is that illegal aliens cost the state of CA money; they do.
My claim is that anyone who is in the United States without the proper documentation, is an illegal alien, which by definition they are.
Here, I'll tackle 1:
"My claim is that illegal aliens cost the state of CA money; they do."
Sincerely doubt it. The low wages immigrants are paid more than make up for the fact that they don't contribute in taxes. There also enough clauses for qualifying for safety nets, grants, scholarships that most illegals don't qualify. Most illegals also wouldn't dare apply for fear of getting deported. The value of work/$ is a lot higher for an illegal then it is for your same skill level citizen, even after you account for contributions to IRS, pension plans etc. Give aliens full rights as an option and they will take it. Why not? Same work, better benefits. Then when you do get a chance to pick up a green card you pay into the system. Out of that bellow minimum wage job they find a way to pay thousands for being illegal. Who's benefiting?
Here is the problem with low wage America. They want a minimum wage, yet they don't have the skills and work ethic to deserve it. So then you impose a minimum wage. That's fine, but businesses react by going to the black market. Take the black market away (evict all illegals). What do you get? Outsourcing. Then you wonder why the state has budget problems. You can only force rich people and businesses to pay so much over what you are worth. They ALWAYS find ways to go around, whether that means replacing a no skill worker with a machine, or paying under the table, or outsourcing. That's because they have the means to do it. We live in an industrialized, globalized world.
You want to get rid of illegals, fine, it won't solve your problem. The problem is laziness and entitlement of low skilled citizens. Remove the minimum wage, see what they are worth.
I agree, the minimum wage is stupid. And with NAFTA, there's no reason why some workers have to be in this country anymore to earn that money. If citizens who are low-skilled weren't supported by welfare, then they would have to work to live and be on the same field as the illegals, which would then increase the competition at the bottom. Thus, I highly doubt that so many illegals would come if it weren't so easy to find work here to begin with.
06-02-2011, 03:04 PM
#158
Registered User
Thread Starter
Edit: I'll try to make a point that we all reap the benefits of illegal immigration.
I live in a predominantly "white" neighborhood and most of my neighbors employ illegal Mexicans for monthly gardening and pool services. Not Southern Americans, Mexicans. I pay two Mexicans for my gardening and pool services as well.
I would like to know what Herrjr and 05TurboS2k think about most of us employing illegals to do our gardening and pool services because they offer the cheapest prices. Keep in mind we pay them in cash.
[/quote]
My bad, missed this post.
I of course think it's wrong. I may have missed why it was important to specify that they were or weren't Mexican specifically unless some other opinions vary from mine in that respect. For me, of course I don't condone illegal labor. I find it unfair to both parties and a breakdown of our social and economic structure.
In WA state you'd find legal (yes white too) Americans doing the services, the prices aren't honestly much higher but they're a little higher but hey, they have to pay taxes and they have a family to feed. I personally am friends with a white guy in his late 40's who has 2 kids and own his little landscaping business. He has one other employee who is Vietnamese and legal. This is common practice up there. Down here he literally couldn't survive unless he avoided taxes as the illegals are able to.
I figure that my position on this is no real surprise nor is the info given.
06-02-2011, 03:05 PM
#159
Registered User
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by cvjoint' timestamp='1307042714' post='20642958
[quote name='herrjr' timestamp='1307031841' post='20642079']
Who made what blanketing statement?
My claim was not that every illegal immigrant is like Edwin Ramos, but that some are.
My claim is that illegal aliens cost the state of CA money; they do.
My claim is that anyone who is in the United States without the proper documentation, is an illegal alien, which by definition they are.
Who made what blanketing statement?
My claim was not that every illegal immigrant is like Edwin Ramos, but that some are.
My claim is that illegal aliens cost the state of CA money; they do.
My claim is that anyone who is in the United States without the proper documentation, is an illegal alien, which by definition they are.
Here, I'll tackle 1:
"My claim is that illegal aliens cost the state of CA money; they do."
Sincerely doubt it. The low wages immigrants are paid more than make up for the fact that they don't contribute in taxes. There also enough clauses for qualifying for safety nets, grants, scholarships that most illegals don't qualify. Most illegals also wouldn't dare apply for fear of getting deported. The value of work/$ is a lot higher for an illegal then it is for your same skill level citizen, even after you account for contributions to IRS, pension plans etc. Give aliens full rights as an option and they will take it. Why not? Same work, better benefits. Then when you do get a chance to pick up a green card you pay into the system. Out of that bellow minimum wage job they find a way to pay thousands for being illegal. Who's benefiting?
Here is the problem with low wage America. They want a minimum wage, yet they don't have the skills and work ethic to deserve it. So then you impose a minimum wage. That's fine, but businesses react by going to the black market. Take the black market away (evict all illegals). What do you get? Outsourcing. Then you wonder why the state has budget problems. You can only force rich people and businesses to pay so much over what you are worth. They ALWAYS find ways to go around, whether that means replacing a no skill worker with a machine, or paying under the table, or outsourcing. That's because they have the means to do it. We live in an industrialized, globalized world.
You want to get rid of illegals, fine, it won't solve your problem. The problem is laziness and entitlement of low skilled citizens. Remove the minimum wage, see what they are worth.
I agree, the minimum wage is stupid. And with NAFTA, there's no reason why some workers have to be in this country anymore to earn that money. If citizens who are low-skilled weren't supported by welfare, then they would have to work to live and be on the same field as the illegals, which would then increase the competition at the bottom. Thus, I highly doubt that so many illegals would come if it weren't so easy to find work here to begin with.
[/quote]
I have read into this many many times, $5 Billion IS the number we loose annually. NAFTA... sigh.
I FULLY agree on the minimum wage and what is causes, it should be around $5/hr if one is to exist at all. Min. wage raising is just another form of socialism imo. Imagine they raise it to 25/hr and we'll have no reason to go to school or strive at all. The higher they raise it the less people will compete.
06-02-2011, 03:10 PM
#160
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: SFV
Posts: 17,288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ESCALVANTE' timestamp='1307035394' post='20642330
I live in a predominantly "white" neighborhood and most of my neighbors employ illegal Mexicans for monthly gardening and pool services. Not Southern Americans, Mexicans. I pay two Mexicans for my gardening and pool services as well.
I would like to know what Herrjr and 05TurboS2k think about most of us employing illegals to do our gardening and pool services because they offer the cheapest prices. Keep in mind we pay them in cash.
I haven't worked in a while...how much cash are we talking about?
I'll do it -- but a few stipulations.
As an American, I'm going to need you to provide me with a safe work environment (shade, cool beverages, snack table) and 30 minute breaks every four hours of work.
I'll probably quit half-way through because I'll find some aspect of your job that I find completely intolerable, but even if I don't, I'm going to do a crappy job you'll wish you had just cut the lawn yourself...or just paid a neighborhood kid to do it.
I'll also charge you 3 times as much as I have overhead to cover...but I'm getting ahead of myself. You'll need to speak with my attorney first to hammer out the finer points of my compensation.
Or have your HR dept do it -- whatever is easier for you.
