Rotors + Pads
02-27-2009, 04:35 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The OC
Posts: 3,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 05TurboS2k,Feb 27 2009, 05:02 PM
TO BACK UP MY OPINION HERE IS A MUCH BETTER SPOKEN PERSON EXPLAINING THE SAME THING
http://forums.venommotorsports.com/default...x?g=posts&t=118
Please read post #5
Here's what it says
Those Poor Rotors
Let's look at some common rotor "modification" and "performance" upgrades that you may have been exposed to. We'll try to separate the marketing from the engineering: Bigger rotors will make your friends think you are cool, bigger rotors look sexy, but bigger rotors do not stop the car. What a bigger rotor will do is lower the overall operating temperature of the brakes--which is a GREAT idea IF your temperatures are causing problems with other ports of the braking system.
Take, for example, a Formula 500 racer, a small 800-pound, single-seat formula car. While the brakes are certainly much smaller than those found on a 3000-pound GT1 Camaro, that does not necessarily mean that they need to be made larger. In fact, installing o GT1 brake package onto our formula car would probably do more harm than good. That's a lot of steel hanging on the wheel that needs to accelerate each time the gas pedal is pushed. So the motto of this story is bigger is better until your temperatures are under control. After that point, you are doing more harm than good, unless you really like the look. (And hey, some of us do.)
Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the '40s and 50s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first drilled because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures, a process known as "gassing out." These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, acting as a lubricant and effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The holes were implemented to give the gasses somewhere to go. It was an effective solution, but today's friction materials do not exhibit the some gassing out phenomenon as the early pads.
For this reason, the holes have carried over more as a design feature than a performance feature. Contrary to popular belief, they don't lower temperatures. (In fact, by removing weight from the rotor, they can actually cause temperatures to increase a little.) These holes create stress risers that allow the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads--sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop. Want more evidence? Look at NASCAR or F1. You would think that if drilling holes in the rotor was the hot ticket, these teams would be doing it.
The one glaring exception here is in the rare situation where the rotors are so oversized that they need to be drilled like Swiss cheese. (Look at any performance motorcycle or lighter formula car, for an example.) While the issues of stress risers and brake pad wear are still present, drilling is used to reduce the mass of the parts in spite of these concerns. Remember that nothing comes for free. If these teams switched to non-drilled rotors, they would see lower operating temperatures and longer brake pad life, at the expense of higher weight. It's all about tradeoffs.
Slotting rotors, on the other hand, might be a consideration if your sanctioning body allows for it. Cutting thin slots across the face of the rotor can actually help to clean the face of the brake pads over time, helping to reduce the glazing often found during high-speed use which can lower the coefficient of friction. While there may still be a small concern over creating stress risers in the face of the rotor, if the slots are shallow and cut properly, the trade-off appears to be worth the risk. (Have you looked at a NASCAR rotor lately?)
Lastly I appologize for long post # 3498753487957.
-Greg
http://forums.venommotorsports.com/default...x?g=posts&t=118
Please read post #5
Here's what it says
Those Poor Rotors
Let's look at some common rotor "modification" and "performance" upgrades that you may have been exposed to. We'll try to separate the marketing from the engineering: Bigger rotors will make your friends think you are cool, bigger rotors look sexy, but bigger rotors do not stop the car. What a bigger rotor will do is lower the overall operating temperature of the brakes--which is a GREAT idea IF your temperatures are causing problems with other ports of the braking system.
Take, for example, a Formula 500 racer, a small 800-pound, single-seat formula car. While the brakes are certainly much smaller than those found on a 3000-pound GT1 Camaro, that does not necessarily mean that they need to be made larger. In fact, installing o GT1 brake package onto our formula car would probably do more harm than good. That's a lot of steel hanging on the wheel that needs to accelerate each time the gas pedal is pushed. So the motto of this story is bigger is better until your temperatures are under control. After that point, you are doing more harm than good, unless you really like the look. (And hey, some of us do.)
Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the '40s and 50s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first drilled because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures, a process known as "gassing out." These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, acting as a lubricant and effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The holes were implemented to give the gasses somewhere to go. It was an effective solution, but today's friction materials do not exhibit the some gassing out phenomenon as the early pads.
For this reason, the holes have carried over more as a design feature than a performance feature. Contrary to popular belief, they don't lower temperatures. (In fact, by removing weight from the rotor, they can actually cause temperatures to increase a little.) These holes create stress risers that allow the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads--sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop. Want more evidence? Look at NASCAR or F1. You would think that if drilling holes in the rotor was the hot ticket, these teams would be doing it.
The one glaring exception here is in the rare situation where the rotors are so oversized that they need to be drilled like Swiss cheese. (Look at any performance motorcycle or lighter formula car, for an example.) While the issues of stress risers and brake pad wear are still present, drilling is used to reduce the mass of the parts in spite of these concerns. Remember that nothing comes for free. If these teams switched to non-drilled rotors, they would see lower operating temperatures and longer brake pad life, at the expense of higher weight. It's all about tradeoffs.
Slotting rotors, on the other hand, might be a consideration if your sanctioning body allows for it. Cutting thin slots across the face of the rotor can actually help to clean the face of the brake pads over time, helping to reduce the glazing often found during high-speed use which can lower the coefficient of friction. While there may still be a small concern over creating stress risers in the face of the rotor, if the slots are shallow and cut properly, the trade-off appears to be worth the risk. (Have you looked at a NASCAR rotor lately?)
Lastly I appologize for long post # 3498753487957.
-Greg
03-02-2009, 05:33 AM
#17
Registered User
Originally Posted by buyos1717,Mar 1 2009, 11:58 PM
Where is the cheapest you guys are finding it? Majestic Honda?
I think stock pads are a JOKE, the stock brakes are ok, but the pads were laughable.
There's been plenty of track reviews on the S2000, in more then one the driver either gives the S last place of just stops driving it because it get's unsafe due to pad condition.
I recommend you pick some other pads. Haven't run em but a lot of guys like the Hawk blue+ pads. Maybe someone can expand on which ones again. I THINK it was blue+
03-02-2009, 12:31 PM
#18
You want Centric rotors. They are cheap and have been shown to have a similar life to the stock rotors under high stress.
For pads you have a lot of options. If you only intend to run a street pads, I like the Hawk HP+ or HPS. If you want to switch between track pads and street pads on the same rotor then you want carbotech bobcat for street and your choice for track (AX6 or an XP combo).
"Drilled" rotors are no good. I have heard they are used on some high-end cars at this point because they slightly reduce noise. Even if you were to use a rotor with holes in it they have to be cast in, not drilled.
The debate for slots is a little more open, but they do crack easier if you are tracking hard. If you aren't tracking then why would you need anything better then what the stock rotors and upgraded pads can offer?
For pads you have a lot of options. If you only intend to run a street pads, I like the Hawk HP+ or HPS. If you want to switch between track pads and street pads on the same rotor then you want carbotech bobcat for street and your choice for track (AX6 or an XP combo).
"Drilled" rotors are no good. I have heard they are used on some high-end cars at this point because they slightly reduce noise. Even if you were to use a rotor with holes in it they have to be cast in, not drilled.
The debate for slots is a little more open, but they do crack easier if you are tracking hard. If you aren't tracking then why would you need anything better then what the stock rotors and upgraded pads can offer?
03-02-2009, 12:40 PM
#19
http://www.propartsusa.com/product_info.ph...oducts_id=10221
http://www.propartsusa.com/product_info.ph...oducts_id=10223
You might find them cheaper somewhere else...
http://www.propartsusa.com/product_info.ph...oducts_id=10223
You might find them cheaper somewhere else...
