thunderhill session
08-14-2012, 07:54 PM
#31
Originally Posted by Voodoo_S2K' timestamp='1344984062' post='21937471
Just to add to my point, a first time driver at the track has the option or requirement to have an instructor with them depending on the organization. They are able to learn at their own pace in a controlled environment, free of a lot of distractions, police officers, and safety concerns compared to the mountains. Besides the costs, please tell me all of the upsides the mountains have?
The one big downside to the track is insurance I guess since you mentioned upsides of the mountains I will mention downsides of the track. You are risking your investment completely where there can always be a "deer" or something that "caused" your accident on the mountains if you happen to go off by yourself. I don't know of many insurance companies that will cover a track related accident. Also, say someone else makes a huge mistake and destroys your car with no fault of your own on the track, insurance company isn't responsible for anyone are they? This could be incorrect but this aligns with what I have been told by people who are involved with or know insurance well.
The other upside, like I always mention, is seat time, you are guaranteed to be able to get more seat time driving in the mountains, even if you are a professional driver. The value of that time is all up to the driver though. I probably learn more about driving on my commute than many people do all day at the track, and that has nothing to do with driving fast or aggressively. There is much more to being a good driver than being fast or aggressive.
Nobody that drives in the mountains will have any bad blood for people that only drive at the track. I love these arguments so much
I will try to think of more "upsides" hehehe.All that said, if you are afraid to drive on public roads you are why traffic in California is so shitty
(not directed at you Vu)Insurance is otherwise the only 'real' reason people fail to make it to the track. People who 'learn on the streets' don't get the proper safety train, safety staff nor everyone there for the same reason.
I drive my share of mountain roads. After going to the track I never push the car like I used to. Nor do I get anywhere near the speeds I might have previously. The big question is why? Well after pushing the car to my limits on the track, I realize that my driving could and does put people on the road at risk. I might take a blind turn just a tad to fast, find a cyclist or a car not where I expect them to. I've increased the risk to myself and the people on the road by 'learning on the streets'. The public roads are no place to learn the limit of the car.
Most of t-hill you can safely spin off and finish out your day without hitting anyone or anything.
In the event a car takes you out on the track, it's a no-fault event. Both parties pay their own way - hence my comment earlier about not getting into groups.
You said it.
08-14-2012, 07:56 PM
#32
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Not sure the reference of that pic meme in reply to my track day ticket post. Are you excited to see me on the track?
08-14-2012, 08:00 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by andrewhake' timestamp='1344998558' post='21937958
[quote name='Voodoo_S2K' timestamp='1344984062' post='21937471']
Just to add to my point, a first time driver at the track has the option or requirement to have an instructor with them depending on the organization. They are able to learn at their own pace in a controlled environment, free of a lot of distractions, police officers, and safety concerns compared to the mountains. Besides the costs, please tell me all of the upsides the mountains have?
Just to add to my point, a first time driver at the track has the option or requirement to have an instructor with them depending on the organization. They are able to learn at their own pace in a controlled environment, free of a lot of distractions, police officers, and safety concerns compared to the mountains. Besides the costs, please tell me all of the upsides the mountains have?
The one big downside to the track is insurance I guess since you mentioned upsides of the mountains I will mention downsides of the track. You are risking your investment completely where there can always be a "deer" or something that "caused" your accident on the mountains if you happen to go off by yourself. I don't know of many insurance companies that will cover a track related accident. Also, say someone else makes a huge mistake and destroys your car with no fault of your own on the track, insurance company isn't responsible for anyone are they? This could be incorrect but this aligns with what I have been told by people who are involved with or know insurance well.
The other upside, like I always mention, is seat time, you are guaranteed to be able to get more seat time driving in the mountains, even if you are a professional driver. The value of that time is all up to the driver though. I probably learn more about driving on my commute than many people do all day at the track, and that has nothing to do with driving fast or aggressively. There is much more to being a good driver than being fast or aggressive.
Nobody that drives in the mountains will have any bad blood for people that only drive at the track. I love these arguments so much
I will try to think of more "upsides" hehehe.All that said, if you are afraid to drive on public roads you are why traffic in California is so shitty
(not directed at you Vu)Insurance is otherwise the only 'real' reason people fail to make it to the track. People who 'learn on the streets' don't get the proper safety train, safety staff nor everyone there for the same reason.
I drive my share of mountain roads. After going to the track I never push the car like I used to. Nor do I get anywhere near the speeds I might have previously. The big question is why? Well after pushing the car to my limits on the track, I realize that my driving could and does put people on the road at risk. I might take a blind turn just a tad to fast, find a cyclist or a car not where I expect them to. I've increased the risk to myself and the people on the road by 'learning on the streets'. The public roads are no place to learn the limit of the car.
Most of t-hill you can safely spin off and finish out your day without hitting anyone or anything.
In the event a car takes you out on the track, it's a no-fault event. Both parties pay their own way - hence my comment earlier about not getting into groups.
[/quote]
When you say its a no fault event does that mean both actual car owners have to pay for their own damage? Or that means both insurance pays for their covered car. I'm confused. Insuring a car seems like a good idea for a track specific insurance but only if I'm covered for all possible instances.
08-14-2012, 08:00 PM
#35
08-14-2012, 08:08 PM
#36
Originally Posted by rob-2' timestamp='1345002870' post='21938094
[quote name='andrewhake' timestamp='1344998558' post='21937958']
[quote name='Voodoo_S2K' timestamp='1344984062' post='21937471']
Just to add to my point, a first time driver at the track has the option or requirement to have an instructor with them depending on the organization. They are able to learn at their own pace in a controlled environment, free of a lot of distractions, police officers, and safety concerns compared to the mountains. Besides the costs, please tell me all of the upsides the mountains have?
[quote name='Voodoo_S2K' timestamp='1344984062' post='21937471']
Just to add to my point, a first time driver at the track has the option or requirement to have an instructor with them depending on the organization. They are able to learn at their own pace in a controlled environment, free of a lot of distractions, police officers, and safety concerns compared to the mountains. Besides the costs, please tell me all of the upsides the mountains have?
The one big downside to the track is insurance I guess since you mentioned upsides of the mountains I will mention downsides of the track. You are risking your investment completely where there can always be a "deer" or something that "caused" your accident on the mountains if you happen to go off by yourself. I don't know of many insurance companies that will cover a track related accident. Also, say someone else makes a huge mistake and destroys your car with no fault of your own on the track, insurance company isn't responsible for anyone are they? This could be incorrect but this aligns with what I have been told by people who are involved with or know insurance well.
The other upside, like I always mention, is seat time, you are guaranteed to be able to get more seat time driving in the mountains, even if you are a professional driver. The value of that time is all up to the driver though. I probably learn more about driving on my commute than many people do all day at the track, and that has nothing to do with driving fast or aggressively. There is much more to being a good driver than being fast or aggressive.
Nobody that drives in the mountains will have any bad blood for people that only drive at the track. I love these arguments so much
I will try to think of more "upsides" hehehe.All that said, if you are afraid to drive on public roads you are why traffic in California is so shitty
(not directed at you Vu)Insurance is otherwise the only 'real' reason people fail to make it to the track. People who 'learn on the streets' don't get the proper safety train, safety staff nor everyone there for the same reason.
I drive my share of mountain roads. After going to the track I never push the car like I used to. Nor do I get anywhere near the speeds I might have previously. The big question is why? Well after pushing the car to my limits on the track, I realize that my driving could and does put people on the road at risk. I might take a blind turn just a tad to fast, find a cyclist or a car not where I expect them to. I've increased the risk to myself and the people on the road by 'learning on the streets'. The public roads are no place to learn the limit of the car.
Most of t-hill you can safely spin off and finish out your day without hitting anyone or anything.
In the event a car takes you out on the track, it's a no-fault event. Both parties pay their own way - hence my comment earlier about not getting into groups.
[/quote]
When you say its a no fault event does that mean both actual car owners have to pay for their own damage? Or that means both insurance pays for their covered car. I'm confused. Insuring a car seems like a good idea for a track specific insurance but only if I'm covered for all possible instances.
[/quote]
You'd have to read the policy more carefully. When on the track my understanding is even if someone hits you, you don't have the right to go after them to pay for your damage. You knew the risks when you entered the track and signed the waiver.
My understanding of buying your own track day insurance is that it covers your car up to the value you buy. But of course that might vary.
08-14-2012, 08:58 PM
#38
If it's at T-hill, I'll see you there!
08-14-2012, 10:43 PM
#39
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You'd have to read the policy more carefully. When on the track my understanding is even if someone hits you, you don't have the right to go after them to pay for your damage. You knew the risks when you entered the track and signed the waiver.
My understanding of buying your own track day insurance is that it covers your car up to the value you buy. But of course that might vary.
My understanding of buying your own track day insurance is that it covers your car up to the value you buy. But of course that might vary.
Are you saying that you are only covered if you smash your own car into a wall, but not if someone smashes into you? If you can't go after someone to pay for the damage they inflict on you, does that mean that the insurance policy covers the cost of that damage? That seems like a risky policy on the insurance company's end.
The website you posted is too vague to know what's really covered:
Note: This insurance policy provides physical damage coverage for your automobile while you are participating in a High-Performance Driver Education event. This physical damage coverage will begin when you enter the grounds of a race course and end when you leave the race course premises. Liability coverage is not included in this policy.
08-14-2012, 11:53 PM
#40
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Thanks a lot for the info guys. Even tho I went to the track today and not mountain driving, I am pretty sure that I can still use some of your input on the track. Unfortunately for one of the driver that rolled his friend's car. I was on turn 4 when the accident happened and he was a few cars ahead of me. It was on turn 5 where the guy rolled. Unfortunate accident but luckily that they both walked away unhurt. The car owner said that the driver was more in shock that he rolled the car. Thanks everybody again for those advice. I will definitely keep those in mind during my next track day. Also thanks Dru for taking me along your car and for being brave that you rode with me and gave me pointers. @ andrewhake, thanks for the advice too and my balls didn't fall off today.