rudyr

There are other groups that don't have this requirement: HOD, NASA doesn't anyone know of others? My preference has been HOD, they keep the run groups fairly small so no traffic.

BrianZ

I don't know any group that does not publicly state you must pass the "broomstick test". Most of these groups let you self tech too, so if you did not pass the broomstick test its your fault. Not many have enforced it, till now. You can put money on it that the other groups will follow shortly. Maybe some of the bigger ones (with their own ins policies) will take longer to adapt, but they will.

rudyr

I'm going to disagree, I highly doubt HOD will institute anything similar. Their FAQ:

Can I drive my convertible in HOD events?
We allow open cars with structural roll protection (i.e. Boxster, S2000, TT roadster, Ferrari 360/430 Spider) and pop up protection such as BMW E46 M3 Convertible, Porsche 996/997 Cabriolet. We do not allow convertibles with no rollover protection to run. Cars such as the Corvette Convertible, 993 Cabriolet, Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky are not allowed without after market, 4 point roll protection.

And NASA does tech, but allows any car with factory roll protection:

http://www.nasanorcal.com/roll_bar_allowed_cars.htm

Both the above groups are consistent with every HPDE org I've experienced (Going back 9 years, TX, MA and now CA, and 2 OneLaps; instructor in some) whereby a car that has structural roll over protection is fine to run regardless of a broomstick test. The only times I've seen it applied were for advanced run groups (instructor's cars exempted) and time-trials.

NCRC was the ONLY group I encountered that actually seemed to make such an issue out it. That's totally fine, but it's why I'm not a potential customer for them. Furthermore, I'm in the camp that believes aftermarket roll bars + SFI padding is dangerous in a car that is used off-track where the driver is unhelmeted. I personally would not drive a caged or bar'd car as a daily driver.

-outkast-

Here's my question. Why would you "not" want to pass the broomstick test? Regardless of if the organization enforces it or not, I like my head intact and attached to my body.

Voodoo_S2K

[QUOTE=rudyr,May 13 2010, 11:56 AM]I'm going to disagree, I highly doubt HOD will institute anything similar.

rudyr

Where your head is relative to the bar while static is NOT where your head may be in an accident. Roll bars and cages are specialized safety devices for cars whose primary use is on track in conjunction with a proper harness. For accidents that are likely to occur on public roads in the real world you're going to be safer with Honda's OEM safety design that took into account all the likely places your body will be in a variety of accident conditions.

Roll over during DE on track that is so severe that it exceeds the structural limit of the windshield of the S2K, IMO, is far less likely than being rear ended on the street and having your head whiplashed into a rollbar. Risk calculation I'm making. Others are free to decide what their risk choice is.

Switching from engineer to attorney, I'll add that I would be very uncomfortable with my insurance status should an injury accident occur to me or a passenger with a car that had a roll bar installed. Introducing a big piece of metal into the cabin, regardless if you think or know it increases safety (good luck proving that, burden will be on you), is handing an insurance company a huge opportunity to deny a claim and pass liability onto you. Not to mention that if you had to touch the seat belt mechanism to get it installed you probably violated some clause in the insurance contract to begin with.

BrianZ

I totally agree with Vu's comments..

I am in no way trying to cause any problems or get anyone upset. I have seen this happen in this industry several times before.

Look at the bigger picture, Even if NCRC is the only group that ever makes HPDE convertibles comply with the broomstick test its for YOUR safety.

rudyr

It is your safety. You have to decide if you want to go with a roll bar + harness + helmet or seatbelt + airbag. It's mutually exclusive. Running that rollbar w/o a harness and a helmet on the street makes the rollbar a hazard. Driving on the street w/ a harness and helmet blows away the ability of the airbag system to work as designed + will likely negate your insurance coverage. Pick where you want to maximize your safety and liability, street or track. I pick street and assume greater risk on track.

Voodoo_S2K

You make a lot of assumptions based on zero data to back it up. I'm running a FIA approved racing seat solidly bolted to the floor. My seat isn't going anywhere, which means I have ZERO chance of hitting the roll bar.

Every corner I take at the track is a risk. I hope your daily commute doesn't have the same risk factor.

rudyr

I agree 110% that your seat isn't going anywhere. Your seat will, without question, survive an accident.

Ignore for a second that I spend hundreds of hours per year on the street vs. a few hours per year total on the track, my daily commute on it's own is orders of magnitude riskier than a corner on a track. If you found a route to take without people weaving in an out of lanes in a SUV @ 70+ mph + drinking coffee + talking on their cell phone let me know.