Most comfortable street coilovers?
07-22-2012, 04:45 PM
#21
What do you mean about having to do with S2000 specifically? You mean like Japanese tuner doesn't use them? If that's the case, yes, as most Japanese tuner stick with Japanese brand, as they can work closer with them, without shipping parts in and out of the country.
When it comes to high end damper, they all pretty close IMHO. JRZ and Moton are identical up to triple adjustable and most parts are interchangeable. Koni 28 series damper is pretty good too. Ohlins TTX as well. Penske is also one of the best, but they have so many pistons and valving option, you have to have deep knowledge to get the right combination or sweet spot.
For race team, it will come down to who they can work closely with and get technical support. Where they can bounce ideas with the damper engineers and get suggestions on what to do or try. Or if there is any changes the team would like to do, the damper company reacts and try to make it happen. Racing is a bit complicated where most of the stuff out there being tried are prototyped. Someone will always come up with new ideas in any given weekend and want to try new ideas. As far as it worked or not, most of them doesn't. But some works. And when they work they have the advantage and that's worth trying it out.
I did have experience with Aragosta on an NSX and didn't think it was in the same level as those mentioned above. Not a lot of people have experience with wide range of damper, thus they are in the situation that think the one they have is the best because it is the best they ever tried.
Full disclosure, we are sponsored by JRZ and sell JRZ, Koni as well as Penske. Maybe it make us a little bias, but we truly believe they are among the best and we have first hand experience with pretty wide range of damper
When it comes to high end damper, they all pretty close IMHO. JRZ and Moton are identical up to triple adjustable and most parts are interchangeable. Koni 28 series damper is pretty good too. Ohlins TTX as well. Penske is also one of the best, but they have so many pistons and valving option, you have to have deep knowledge to get the right combination or sweet spot.
For race team, it will come down to who they can work closely with and get technical support. Where they can bounce ideas with the damper engineers and get suggestions on what to do or try. Or if there is any changes the team would like to do, the damper company reacts and try to make it happen. Racing is a bit complicated where most of the stuff out there being tried are prototyped. Someone will always come up with new ideas in any given weekend and want to try new ideas. As far as it worked or not, most of them doesn't. But some works. And when they work they have the advantage and that's worth trying it out.
I did have experience with Aragosta on an NSX and didn't think it was in the same level as those mentioned above. Not a lot of people have experience with wide range of damper, thus they are in the situation that think the one they have is the best because it is the best they ever tried.
Full disclosure, we are sponsored by JRZ and sell JRZ, Koni as well as Penske. Maybe it make us a little bias, but we truly believe they are among the best and we have first hand experience with pretty wide range of damper
When it comes to the top level being able to directly work with the company building the parts is definitely a huge advantage. Even when you have got the best setup you have ever experienced, it is important to continue to analyze and determine what could be improved, even if it is minor.
07-22-2012, 05:20 PM
#22
This is good stuff. Keep it coming.
When I was Japan, I got a ride around the city in one of the ASM cars (the black one with orange accents). It had the ridiculous expensive SACHS coilovers. My goodness. It was like some magical combination of firm and smooth suspension over any type of surface.
When I was Japan, I got a ride around the city in one of the ASM cars (the black one with orange accents). It had the ridiculous expensive SACHS coilovers. My goodness. It was like some magical combination of firm and smooth suspension over any type of surface.
I think an equivalent setup would be the Ohlins DFV Road & Track setup that is offered today. (Although these were done to R-Magic's specs)
07-24-2012, 09:54 AM
#24
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I've owned/used just about most of the average brands (not the race stuff since those cost ridiculous amounts of money and few would spend that here)
KWV3's and Zeals are my top favorite brands.
I had BC Racing on my IS_F and had some issues with those - swapping to KWV3's made a night/day difference in terms of ride comfort and firmness for a daily driver.
I have Tien Flex on my NSX and the ride is a bit harsh but I prefer it that way to avoid bottoming out on certain types of roads. I rarely drive the car so it's live-able.
My s2000's have used everything from Apexi, Tien Flex, KWV2 and V3, Bilsteins, Koni, and right now running the Zeal's which are pretty good. However I find the Zeals setup a bit soft so might have to do some adjustments as it seems to rub a bit with the new rubber.
KWV3's and Zeals are my top favorite brands.
I had BC Racing on my IS_F and had some issues with those - swapping to KWV3's made a night/day difference in terms of ride comfort and firmness for a daily driver.
I have Tien Flex on my NSX and the ride is a bit harsh but I prefer it that way to avoid bottoming out on certain types of roads. I rarely drive the car so it's live-able.
My s2000's have used everything from Apexi, Tien Flex, KWV2 and V3, Bilsteins, Koni, and right now running the Zeal's which are pretty good. However I find the Zeals setup a bit soft so might have to do some adjustments as it seems to rub a bit with the new rubber.
07-24-2012, 10:38 AM
#25
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I'll give my two cents on three coilover setups I've had.
1st PSS9's: lowered them to recommended lowest height. The ride was absolutely better than stock. Handled SF bumps nicely and freeway was very smooth, but not floaty. Although the lowest recommended height was too high for me. Lowered it below the threshold and ride became bouncy. Adjustment on the PSS9's were hit or miss. There was never an in between. It was either stiff or soft.
2nd KW V3: Wow these things were just a lil bit more expensive, a lil bit more firmer, but ride was more planted and more comfortable than the PSS9's. I think the PSS9's are rated in the 350lb range, I had the V3's with 457lbs springs. It was a nice balance of daily driving and spirited mountain runs with just a few clicks away to get it firm enough to get the most out of my star specs. I liked the fact i can adjust compression. That made a big difference in city driving. I softened the compression for street. Made for a very nice ride, but took away from the car turning in and holding its line in a turn. I found factory settings for compression, or jus a tad stiffer to be compliant for those who dared ride with me LOL. After a while, I thought the 457lb springs weren't sprung enough for the valving. So I ordered some swift springs to try out. Haven't gotten a chance to try my new spring setup. Maybe in a couple months I'll try em out
3rd TEIN Monoflex: spring rate 672 front and 570 rear. Yea these are way stiffer than the V3's. 1st ride in these took some getting used to. Road bumps were amplified with a higher spring rate but I found the car more controlled and balanced in turns. After riding on the monoflexes for a couple months now, I actually like em compared to the v3's. Though, some passengers might not. Some have not like the firmness that entails with the Monoflexes. Some actually say its a BMW kinda firm. I daily on these and actually like them on my commute compared to the V3's.
I'd put these coils on this order
(1)KW v3's : good for lowering car with no finger gap and still have ride comfort and good handling in turns. Bad is preload changes with ride height.
(2)TEIN MONOFLEX : comfort is subjective to who may ride in your car, but definitely a firm ride. Can lower car and not change preload, as ride height is separate from preload.
(3)PSS9 : good entry coilover. Nothing to slam your car with. Adjustment on firmness isn't the greatest. Decent compared with the above
1st PSS9's: lowered them to recommended lowest height. The ride was absolutely better than stock. Handled SF bumps nicely and freeway was very smooth, but not floaty. Although the lowest recommended height was too high for me. Lowered it below the threshold and ride became bouncy. Adjustment on the PSS9's were hit or miss. There was never an in between. It was either stiff or soft.
2nd KW V3: Wow these things were just a lil bit more expensive, a lil bit more firmer, but ride was more planted and more comfortable than the PSS9's. I think the PSS9's are rated in the 350lb range, I had the V3's with 457lbs springs. It was a nice balance of daily driving and spirited mountain runs with just a few clicks away to get it firm enough to get the most out of my star specs. I liked the fact i can adjust compression. That made a big difference in city driving. I softened the compression for street. Made for a very nice ride, but took away from the car turning in and holding its line in a turn. I found factory settings for compression, or jus a tad stiffer to be compliant for those who dared ride with me LOL. After a while, I thought the 457lb springs weren't sprung enough for the valving. So I ordered some swift springs to try out. Haven't gotten a chance to try my new spring setup. Maybe in a couple months I'll try em out
3rd TEIN Monoflex: spring rate 672 front and 570 rear. Yea these are way stiffer than the V3's. 1st ride in these took some getting used to. Road bumps were amplified with a higher spring rate but I found the car more controlled and balanced in turns. After riding on the monoflexes for a couple months now, I actually like em compared to the v3's. Though, some passengers might not. Some have not like the firmness that entails with the Monoflexes. Some actually say its a BMW kinda firm. I daily on these and actually like them on my commute compared to the V3's.
I'd put these coils on this order
(1)KW v3's : good for lowering car with no finger gap and still have ride comfort and good handling in turns. Bad is preload changes with ride height.
(2)TEIN MONOFLEX : comfort is subjective to who may ride in your car, but definitely a firm ride. Can lower car and not change preload, as ride height is separate from preload.
(3)PSS9 : good entry coilover. Nothing to slam your car with. Adjustment on firmness isn't the greatest. Decent compared with the above
07-24-2012, 11:43 AM
#27
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07-24-2012, 12:43 PM
#29
A damper with separate height and preload adjustments is much easier to adjust on the fly also isn't it?
07-24-2012, 01:49 PM
#30
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I think a lot of people use the term preload the wrong way. Proper length damper, with enough droop, should never had preload. Most proper length damper will have to have a helper springs. This helper springs should be somewhat compressed at full droop. At static height, the weight of the car load the the helper springs until the helper springs collapsed completely. Main springs then take over.
For instance, assuming a car weigh at 3000 lbs and perfectly distributed 750 lbs on each corner and with motion ratio 1:1 for simplicity.
Each corner is also running 750 lbs/inch main spring rate. At the car static height, the main springs is compressed 1".
Most dampers that uses dual adjustment build their damper short enough so you don't have helper springs, and the spring just touch the top hat at full droop. You will only have 1" droop. Any adjustment up on lower spring perch will "preload" the springs. However any adjustment up until 1" compression on the spring doesn't preload the spring under static height of the car. It will however store energy.
If you running a helper spring, and the helper spring is not fully compressed at full droop, there will be no preload whatsoever even when you raise the lower perch up, until the helper springs fully compressed and you keep compressing main spring. However, this will make the car really high and undesirable.
Most company that design their damper to have 2 adjustments are doing it for simplicity, cost and ease of production. They design one type of damper and make different attachment on the bottom of the damper to fit different cars. This way, they only need few different length of main damper. In turn this actually makes the ride height adjustment even smaller window. For instance, the above scenario. In order for you to have enough droop, in almost all instance, you have to have the damper lower spring perch to position the spring to just touch the top spring hat. Or you won't have any droop. This leave your adjustment on height on the lower perch or preload perch some called it.
I'm not gonna say one is better than the other. Each one has their own application.
However, if you're one of my client, I would have gone in length explaining advantageous of each one and tell you which one I think is better suited for you. A forum like this is just not a perfect venue for it.
For instance, assuming a car weigh at 3000 lbs and perfectly distributed 750 lbs on each corner and with motion ratio 1:1 for simplicity.
Each corner is also running 750 lbs/inch main spring rate. At the car static height, the main springs is compressed 1".
Most dampers that uses dual adjustment build their damper short enough so you don't have helper springs, and the spring just touch the top hat at full droop. You will only have 1" droop. Any adjustment up on lower spring perch will "preload" the springs. However any adjustment up until 1" compression on the spring doesn't preload the spring under static height of the car. It will however store energy.
If you running a helper spring, and the helper spring is not fully compressed at full droop, there will be no preload whatsoever even when you raise the lower perch up, until the helper springs fully compressed and you keep compressing main spring. However, this will make the car really high and undesirable.
Most company that design their damper to have 2 adjustments are doing it for simplicity, cost and ease of production. They design one type of damper and make different attachment on the bottom of the damper to fit different cars. This way, they only need few different length of main damper. In turn this actually makes the ride height adjustment even smaller window. For instance, the above scenario. In order for you to have enough droop, in almost all instance, you have to have the damper lower spring perch to position the spring to just touch the top spring hat. Or you won't have any droop. This leave your adjustment on height on the lower perch or preload perch some called it.
I'm not gonna say one is better than the other. Each one has their own application.
However, if you're one of my client, I would have gone in length explaining advantageous of each one and tell you which one I think is better suited for you. A forum like this is just not a perfect venue for it.