Looking to tune InlinePro Stage 1 Turbo kit
05-06-2013, 05:16 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Voodoo_S2K' timestamp='1367874994' post='22523445
[quote name='guamie' timestamp='1367873284' post='22523361']
LOL. it has NOTHING to do with it being a greddy kit. i'm pretty sure i wasn't supposed to LOSE 30hp/tq at/near 6000RPM. The graph speaks for itself. So sorry, it wasn't the greddy kit. At first, i thought it was my car's fault, but i did a compression check,checked for boost leaks, etc. Everything checked out fine. Showed my graph in the turbo section, and everyone just laughed.
Personally, i wouldn't go back to blacktrax. I made this thread to find another tuner.
LOL. it has NOTHING to do with it being a greddy kit. i'm pretty sure i wasn't supposed to LOSE 30hp/tq at/near 6000RPM. The graph speaks for itself. So sorry, it wasn't the greddy kit. At first, i thought it was my car's fault, but i did a compression check,checked for boost leaks, etc. Everything checked out fine. Showed my graph in the turbo section, and everyone just laughed.
Personally, i wouldn't go back to blacktrax. I made this thread to find another tuner.
If you had already decided you weren't interested in Blacktrax, then perhaps you should have stated that initially and saved some of us the time. The reply can only be as good as the question being asked
.If you want to go up to Sac, there is Driving Ambition. Shad used to be the tuner for Comptech before they went out of business.
And with those tuning issues, there have been many solutions. I started a thread in the turbo section and one of the solutions was to raise the vtec engagement. Sadly, I was not able to test that solution, but your statement "No one can do much with that kit" just made it seem that there were NO greddy kit owners with a good tune.
Judging from all the responses thus far, i'm pretty sure i still would've "wasted" peoples time if i had stated that i didn't want to go to blacktrax. People would be asking "Whats wrong with them?" since everyone seems to recommend them on this forum. I actually thought that not mentioning them would've saved time. I'm just here to find different alternatives.
Lastly, Thank you for your recommendation of Driving Ambition. Another member had recommended them as well.
[/quote]
No harm done dude. Many of us are Jei fans. Great guy, lots of community support and lets not forget great services.
05-06-2013, 09:55 PM
#24
Guys I appreciate the BT support. Roni's got every right to choose who you want to tune your car so please feel free and I apologize if we didn't provide you with a tune you're happy with. There aren't too many honda tuners left in the bay area that keep up with the S2k so I think the responses you're getting from Bay Area S2ki is kind of obvious. The inline pro kit is a better upgrade and will give you a much smoother curve because it will supply enough airflow which pairs with the high cam more efficiently than a greddy turbo ever could. After the tune in 2011, like you said, I did express what supporting mods would help alleviate the dip as I do this with every car I tune. It would have been nice to know between 2011-2013. After tune follow up is something I've currently added to my services. BTW I think we're linked on Instagram too. Well, I hope to earn an opportunity to tune your IP setup so allow me the opportunity to explain. Simply put, the EMU and turbo are what's holding the engine back from a nice smooth curve.
If you're interested, I'd gladly show you you multiple graphs of multiple greddy turbo kit setups with multiple vtec engagement points at multiple AFR's. Vtec engagement at any rpm lower than stock using EMU for tuning would result in an even larger dip. In some cases (dependent on setup) we've had to raise vtec higher than the stock 6,000 rpm. Actually as I write this I noticed this is the case with your graph. Make note that the run order follows the order of colored dots from top to bottom. 1st run is red, 2nd run green respectively. So the first two runs I had vtec engaging below 6k and the result was a big surge. Having witnessed this since 2006, around when this kit was first introduced(when the manifolds were still welded vs cast) we tried everything to get a smooth tune and only got close with the following upgrades: modify greddy downpipe to flare to 3", no cat, 3" exhaust, ported wastegate housing and AEM EMS 1. Vtec engagement rpm was lowered but nothing lower than 5krpm on stock boost. Consequently, the curve still wasn't and won't be as smooth as the IP setup you have now.
Question: Could I have given you a smoother tune without a dip? Answer:YES The only way to do it given your setup and conditions however was to engage vtec at 7200rpm. Sounds ridiculous right? We tested this a while back as well; disable vtec entirely and run out the low cam until we lose efficiency. The graph will carry past the dip at start to drop at 7200. Ask me to to set vtec at 7200 and you'll find me saying I won't do it. Too much risk associated. The EMU does not have any failsafe parameters. AEM EMS or Kpro does. Future upgrades to the exhaust, intake or boost without a retune could lead to engine failure. Going back to the 7200rpm example and your comment about my suggestion on raising boost. If boost was raised, vtec crossover would need to be lowered because the cylinder filling would literally back up into the intake. Now that we found the limit of the low cam, we can engage the high cam earlier or lower than 6k rpm. The other graphs you see have upgrades or increased boost levels, the details aren't listed.
Ultimately the dyno is a tuning tool and the data tells the tuner what areas need to be adjusted. We adjust, we measure, we test. The information provided by the dyno and engine sensors ultimately determines how much adjustment can be made before we reach no significant improvement all the while keeping risk low. That's when we know when we've reached the end of the tune. With a limited tuning system, it adds to the challenge. So we often inform/suggest on what works based on gathered data.
I'll put it out there now, speaking from experience, for the level of tuning that 90% of what the S2K needs can be fully and reliably tuned using Hondata Kpro. Make the investment because it's worth the extra penny over AEM. Feel free to PM me on details about how and why if you're interested. Buy the map sensor and buy the wideband (recommended for both AEM or Kpro). You can't go wrong with a Honda system powering a Honda motor.
Best of luck!
If you're interested, I'd gladly show you you multiple graphs of multiple greddy turbo kit setups with multiple vtec engagement points at multiple AFR's. Vtec engagement at any rpm lower than stock using EMU for tuning would result in an even larger dip. In some cases (dependent on setup) we've had to raise vtec higher than the stock 6,000 rpm. Actually as I write this I noticed this is the case with your graph. Make note that the run order follows the order of colored dots from top to bottom. 1st run is red, 2nd run green respectively. So the first two runs I had vtec engaging below 6k and the result was a big surge. Having witnessed this since 2006, around when this kit was first introduced(when the manifolds were still welded vs cast) we tried everything to get a smooth tune and only got close with the following upgrades: modify greddy downpipe to flare to 3", no cat, 3" exhaust, ported wastegate housing and AEM EMS 1. Vtec engagement rpm was lowered but nothing lower than 5krpm on stock boost. Consequently, the curve still wasn't and won't be as smooth as the IP setup you have now.
Question: Could I have given you a smoother tune without a dip? Answer:YES The only way to do it given your setup and conditions however was to engage vtec at 7200rpm. Sounds ridiculous right? We tested this a while back as well; disable vtec entirely and run out the low cam until we lose efficiency. The graph will carry past the dip at start to drop at 7200. Ask me to to set vtec at 7200 and you'll find me saying I won't do it. Too much risk associated. The EMU does not have any failsafe parameters. AEM EMS or Kpro does. Future upgrades to the exhaust, intake or boost without a retune could lead to engine failure. Going back to the 7200rpm example and your comment about my suggestion on raising boost. If boost was raised, vtec crossover would need to be lowered because the cylinder filling would literally back up into the intake. Now that we found the limit of the low cam, we can engage the high cam earlier or lower than 6k rpm. The other graphs you see have upgrades or increased boost levels, the details aren't listed.
Ultimately the dyno is a tuning tool and the data tells the tuner what areas need to be adjusted. We adjust, we measure, we test. The information provided by the dyno and engine sensors ultimately determines how much adjustment can be made before we reach no significant improvement all the while keeping risk low. That's when we know when we've reached the end of the tune. With a limited tuning system, it adds to the challenge. So we often inform/suggest on what works based on gathered data.
I'll put it out there now, speaking from experience, for the level of tuning that 90% of what the S2K needs can be fully and reliably tuned using Hondata Kpro. Make the investment because it's worth the extra penny over AEM. Feel free to PM me on details about how and why if you're interested. Buy the map sensor and buy the wideband (recommended for both AEM or Kpro). You can't go wrong with a Honda system powering a Honda motor.
Best of luck!
05-08-2013, 01:06 PM
#27
Registered User
Thread Starter
Guys I appreciate the BT support. Roni's got every right to choose who you want to tune your car so please feel free and I apologize if we didn't provide you with a tune you're happy with. There aren't too many honda tuners left in the bay area that keep up with the S2k so I think the responses you're getting from Bay Area S2ki is kind of obvious. The inline pro kit is a better upgrade and will give you a much smoother curve because it will supply enough airflow which pairs with the high cam more efficiently than a greddy turbo ever could. After the tune in 2011, like you said, I did express what supporting mods would help alleviate the dip as I do this with every car I tune. It would have been nice to know between 2011-2013. After tune follow up is something I've currently added to my services. BTW I think we're linked on Instagram too. Well, I hope to earn an opportunity to tune your IP setup so allow me the opportunity to explain. Simply put, the EMU and turbo are what's holding the engine back from a nice smooth curve.
If you're interested, I'd gladly show you you multiple graphs of multiple greddy turbo kit setups with multiple vtec engagement points at multiple AFR's. Vtec engagement at any rpm lower than stock using EMU for tuning would result in an even larger dip. In some cases (dependent on setup) we've had to raise vtec higher than the stock 6,000 rpm. Actually as I write this I noticed this is the case with your graph. Make note that the run order follows the order of colored dots from top to bottom. 1st run is red, 2nd run green respectively. So the first two runs I had vtec engaging below 6k and the result was a big surge. Having witnessed this since 2006, around when this kit was first introduced(when the manifolds were still welded vs cast) we tried everything to get a smooth tune and only got close with the following upgrades: modify greddy downpipe to flare to 3", no cat, 3" exhaust, ported wastegate housing and AEM EMS 1. Vtec engagement rpm was lowered but nothing lower than 5krpm on stock boost. Consequently, the curve still wasn't and won't be as smooth as the IP setup you have now.
Question: Could I have given you a smoother tune without a dip? Answer:YES The only way to do it given your setup and conditions however was to engage vtec at 7200rpm. Sounds ridiculous right? We tested this a while back as well; disable vtec entirely and run out the low cam until we lose efficiency. The graph will carry past the dip at start to drop at 7200. Ask me to to set vtec at 7200 and you'll find me saying I won't do it. Too much risk associated. The EMU does not have any failsafe parameters. AEM EMS or Kpro does. Future upgrades to the exhaust, intake or boost without a retune could lead to engine failure. Going back to the 7200rpm example and your comment about my suggestion on raising boost. If boost was raised, vtec crossover would need to be lowered because the cylinder filling would literally back up into the intake. Now that we found the limit of the low cam, we can engage the high cam earlier or lower than 6k rpm. The other graphs you see have upgrades or increased boost levels, the details aren't listed.
Ultimately the dyno is a tuning tool and the data tells the tuner what areas need to be adjusted. We adjust, we measure, we test. The information provided by the dyno and engine sensors ultimately determines how much adjustment can be made before we reach no significant improvement all the while keeping risk low. That's when we know when we've reached the end of the tune. With a limited tuning system, it adds to the challenge. So we often inform/suggest on what works based on gathered data.
I'll put it out there now, speaking from experience, for the level of tuning that 90% of what the S2K needs can be fully and reliably tuned using Hondata Kpro. Make the investment because it's worth the extra penny over AEM. Feel free to PM me on details about how and why if you're interested. Buy the map sensor and buy the wideband (recommended for both AEM or Kpro). You can't go wrong with a Honda system powering a Honda motor.
Best of luck!
If you're interested, I'd gladly show you you multiple graphs of multiple greddy turbo kit setups with multiple vtec engagement points at multiple AFR's. Vtec engagement at any rpm lower than stock using EMU for tuning would result in an even larger dip. In some cases (dependent on setup) we've had to raise vtec higher than the stock 6,000 rpm. Actually as I write this I noticed this is the case with your graph. Make note that the run order follows the order of colored dots from top to bottom. 1st run is red, 2nd run green respectively. So the first two runs I had vtec engaging below 6k and the result was a big surge. Having witnessed this since 2006, around when this kit was first introduced(when the manifolds were still welded vs cast) we tried everything to get a smooth tune and only got close with the following upgrades: modify greddy downpipe to flare to 3", no cat, 3" exhaust, ported wastegate housing and AEM EMS 1. Vtec engagement rpm was lowered but nothing lower than 5krpm on stock boost. Consequently, the curve still wasn't and won't be as smooth as the IP setup you have now.
Question: Could I have given you a smoother tune without a dip? Answer:YES The only way to do it given your setup and conditions however was to engage vtec at 7200rpm. Sounds ridiculous right? We tested this a while back as well; disable vtec entirely and run out the low cam until we lose efficiency. The graph will carry past the dip at start to drop at 7200. Ask me to to set vtec at 7200 and you'll find me saying I won't do it. Too much risk associated. The EMU does not have any failsafe parameters. AEM EMS or Kpro does. Future upgrades to the exhaust, intake or boost without a retune could lead to engine failure. Going back to the 7200rpm example and your comment about my suggestion on raising boost. If boost was raised, vtec crossover would need to be lowered because the cylinder filling would literally back up into the intake. Now that we found the limit of the low cam, we can engage the high cam earlier or lower than 6k rpm. The other graphs you see have upgrades or increased boost levels, the details aren't listed.
Ultimately the dyno is a tuning tool and the data tells the tuner what areas need to be adjusted. We adjust, we measure, we test. The information provided by the dyno and engine sensors ultimately determines how much adjustment can be made before we reach no significant improvement all the while keeping risk low. That's when we know when we've reached the end of the tune. With a limited tuning system, it adds to the challenge. So we often inform/suggest on what works based on gathered data.
I'll put it out there now, speaking from experience, for the level of tuning that 90% of what the S2K needs can be fully and reliably tuned using Hondata Kpro. Make the investment because it's worth the extra penny over AEM. Feel free to PM me on details about how and why if you're interested. Buy the map sensor and buy the wideband (recommended for both AEM or Kpro). You can't go wrong with a Honda system powering a Honda motor.
Best of luck!
thanks for your detailed response. your explanation pretty much sums up what others were saying in the turbo section. just like you had mentioned, this would've been nice to know back in 2011-2013. I think i wouldve pursued it more, but other things took priority at the time. There are no hard feelings, and i appreciate the effort you have made to respond.
Question: I had AEM EMS when you tuned the car. (former car owner bought it from you) Does that mean you could have made a smoother tune at that time?
05-08-2013, 11:07 PM
#28
i can send you to my tuner, he is very very good aem v2 and hondata tuner.
he tunes all my cars, i drive all the way to santa rosa for him to tune.
my 800whp daily street car + 500whp track cars are all tuned by him.
05-09-2013, 09:40 AM
#29
Originally Posted by guamie' timestamp='1367864057' post='22522801
Looking to see if anyone has tuned an inline pro stage 1 turbo kit in the area. I am also willing to listen to your recommendations and personal experiences.
i can send you to my tuner, he is very very good aem v2 and hondata tuner.
he tunes all my cars, i drive all the way to santa rosa for him to tune.
my 800whp daily street car + 500whp track cars are all tuned by him.
05-09-2013, 12:27 PM
#30
Originally Posted by tbkonwso' timestamp='1368083249' post='22530041
[quote name='guamie' timestamp='1367864057' post='22522801']
Looking to see if anyone has tuned an inline pro stage 1 turbo kit in the area. I am also willing to listen to your recommendations and personal experiences.
Looking to see if anyone has tuned an inline pro stage 1 turbo kit in the area. I am also willing to listen to your recommendations and personal experiences.
i can send you to my tuner, he is very very good aem v2 and hondata tuner.
he tunes all my cars, i drive all the way to santa rosa for him to tune.
my 800whp daily street car + 500whp track cars are all tuned by him.
[/quote]
yes a lot of you guys don't know but he actually works on S2000 a lot. did couple 6766 E85 S2000, LS7 S2K etc etc.
but he is pretty busy right now trying to finish his 2J mustang for upcoming race this season + the usual 6-10 list of cars on the waiting list that needs work or tune.