Originally Posted by Thateguhate

You sir, are the minority in your opinion here.

Originally Posted by macr88

The problem I have is why we're having to pay so much compared to the rest of the us.

Originally Posted by danvuquoc

The problem I have is why we're having to pay so much compared to the rest of the us.

Originally Posted by kaansahbaz

You guys don't have a SUV that gets 15mpg I guess !!! Lol

Originally Posted by macr88

The problem I have is why we're having to pay so much compared to the rest of the us.

Originally Posted by Thateguhate

You sir, are the minority in your opinion here.

Originally Posted by rob-2

Lazy Man's summary of my post below-Energy has never been cheaper, we've never been wealthier, you should learn to give on less and beome less wasteful - big idea.

All the details

Interestingly though we've grown our economy on ultra cheap energy for the last 60 years. Who's been controlled?

Our foreign policy following WWII has been "The betterment of US people through peaceful means or otherwise". Thus we enjoy some of the cheapest energy costs in the world, lowest food prices, and the world is generally a safer place today than it was in WWII. We were so successful with our policies we doubled twice our GDP before 1960 and are the largest economy by miles. CHina only half ours but with 1 billion people.

I don't reject the basics of the we can create energy more efficiently debate but it strikes me as odd when the single largest way to improve our lives is to learn to live with less energy.

I challenge everyone who gets involved with such debates to look around their own lives. How many of you drive when you could walk? How many own heavy SUV or Trucks when a small car would do?

You know what I've found over the years? People want to debate or get excited over technology that means they don't have to reduce their use or become less wasteful. So it all becomes an intellectual debate, with little to no gains for people.

We have all the technology now to produce our own power and become energy independent. The little known sercet that no one seems to want to mention is at less than $200/barrel oil is the cheapest and safest form of fuel. We're consuming the worlds oil supply because it's in our domestic interests. Given enough time Canada and Alaska will be the largest reserves and close to home. Than we can kick into high gear all the alternative fuel programs we've invested in during the 70's.

But consider this. My energy bill is $70/month. My car, driven 400mils/month $100 in fuel. Yet a big screen TV shipped from Asia is about $500. A meal out at a nice place is $60+.

While we all jump up an down about $4/gallon gas, peak oil and the like it's all complete BS. We are living with ultra low energy prices.

Facts a gallon of gas in 1919 cost .25 which is $2.84 in 2005 dollars. But gasoline in 2005 was about $1.90. An amazingly 33% cheaper in almost 100 years.

Average house hold income $750/year in 1919 and in 2009 average income was $62K/person

FYI $750 in 1919 is only $9,826.52 in 2012 dollars. For the people in 1919 to live like we do today they would have had to see a 6.2 fold increase income.

Below you'll see the average person spends 50% more on healthcare or about as much on entertainment as fuel.





Conclusion - while tree huggers and off the gridders scream 'big oil is bad' they're all living, if in America, in the top 5% of the wealthiest people in the world. We could all use a little humility. Our views of the world are twisted. We don't need free energy, America needs to learn to live on less. Which btw our domestic use of gasoline is on the decline and that was per-recession. As for these create power from nothing, they aren't valuable until these inventors get scale behind them. Solar and wind on residential homes offers the best short and long term solutions to our energy needs while feeding extra back onto the grid.

Next person to debate shoudl come with more than opinion and be backed by facts and references. Alot of hot air opinion based debating has gone on long enough.


References
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehicles...t_fotw364.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123957686061311925.html