o_O S2000 | Mk I — Stage II
07-12-2016, 07:00 AM
#2821
Is there a concern you have with it set lower for daily driving, like the reliability/wear concerns longer term with "using" vtec more often? I'd think it should be fine personally. You can also adjust the throttle "threshold" where vtec kicks in with the flashpro if you're concerned about that so it doesn't switch over to the high cam if you're just putzing around. Having vtec set at ~4k rpm gives the car a very nice powerband and meaty midrange.
07-12-2016, 10:57 AM
#2822
Originally Posted by caleb2483' timestamp='1468259077' post='24013894
What does the ASM throttle body spacer do? I know in the B-Series Honda motors, they cleaned up the air coming in and helped distribute the air into each intake chamber better.. assuming it does the same thing?
Science of Speed actually makes an 06-09 AP2 throttle body with a similar outlet size to the ASM (I think their outlet is 66.4mm or something) so it could be used with the ASM spacer as well to get rid of that little bit of turbulence. Technically the spacer also adds a little extra volume to the intake manifold as well.
Would this from Ballade throttle body be the same thing as SOS? SOS seems cheaper? SOS throttle body
07-12-2016, 11:59 AM
#2823
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by andrewhake' timestamp='1468282032' post='24014254
[quote name='caleb2483' timestamp='1468259077' post='24013894']
What does the ASM throttle body spacer do? I know in the B-Series Honda motors, they cleaned up the air coming in and helped distribute the air into each intake chamber better.. assuming it does the same thing?
What does the ASM throttle body spacer do? I know in the B-Series Honda motors, they cleaned up the air coming in and helped distribute the air into each intake chamber better.. assuming it does the same thing?
Science of Speed actually makes an 06-09 AP2 throttle body with a similar outlet size to the ASM (I think their outlet is 66.4mm or something) so it could be used with the ASM spacer as well to get rid of that little bit of turbulence. Technically the spacer also adds a little extra volume to the intake manifold as well.
Would this from Ballade throttle body be the same thing as SOS? SOS seems cheaper? SOS throttle body
[/quote]
That "Ballade Sports throttle body" is just an unmodified OEM Honda throttle body from a MDX/RDX if I am not mistaken. You can get it cheaper from Honda/Acura if you want to go that route with the much larger throttle body setup. You would also need an adapter, which Ballade does make I think, and a different intake arm. or coupler. You can't really use the OEM intake arm. The coolant recirculation setup is also different.
SOS and Toda/ASM have another nice advantage of using flush hardware on the throttle plate so it doesn't protrude like the OEM unit, so a little less disturbance of airflow passing over the throttle plate.
I haven't seen any data showing the specific actual advantage with the larger 80mm inlet TB that the smaller ones don't also who, I would guess it would show a larger advantage moving to a 2.4L setup. I believe there is a small perceivable different in top end end power after moving to the ASM TB with the adapter. I would guess very similar to what the SOS dynapack results show:
SOS TB is the best value for money option in my opinion, I went with the ASM setup because of the exact match with the adapter. Hardly the most cost effective option though.
07-12-2016, 12:06 PM
#2824
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by andrewhake' timestamp='1468310327' post='24014477
I don't plan lowering VTEC lower than 5000 though since I daily drive the car. Power band is already really nicely balanced with it lowered around the 5000-5500 range.
07-13-2016, 10:40 PM
#2825
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Measured my ride height again last night after installing the throttle body after the new suspension has seen a good amount of use and now that I have taken a lot of weight out of the car.
LF 322mm RF 322mm
LR 327mm RR 327mm
I like to get ride height measurements from the center of the wheel hub to the fender edge, so I have found that the best way of measuring this is to measure the entire wheel face lip to lip. In my case that is 472mm. (A 17" wheel is 17" at the barrel of the wheel, it's overall diameter is around 18.5" or 472mm). Divide 472mm by 2 and you get 236, which is exactly half of the diameter of the wheel. Next I measure the distance from the bottom lip of the wheel to the edge of the fender. So using the LR as an example this measurement was 563mm. Then you just need to subtract the half wheel face measurement from that so 563-236=327mm. This gets you an exact measurement from the "center" of the wheel which is normally pretty hard to do since there isn't really anything to accurately measure from at the center and on the same plane as the fender edge.
Some old photos with a little diagram to explain:
472mm
563mm. Subtract 236 from that and get 327mm.
This will vary a little bit from car to car and with different alignments and fenders and what not, so measurements can't always be compared car to car, but I find it to be the most effective when dialing in my own ride height.
But back to my measurements. VERY happy to see how little the springs have settled and how consistent it is from spring to spring. When I installed I made sure the front and rear damper lengths were very exact from side to side, and with such little variance in how the springs settle makes it that much easier to adjust. I am going to get the header installed (which should remove a little more weight from the front end, and the will probably raise up the front a few mm to closer match the rear if needed. With the small 5mm difference front to rear the ride height visually looks very similar front to rear in terms of distance to the fender/quarter panel edge.
LF 322mm RF 322mm
LR 327mm RR 327mm
I like to get ride height measurements from the center of the wheel hub to the fender edge, so I have found that the best way of measuring this is to measure the entire wheel face lip to lip. In my case that is 472mm. (A 17" wheel is 17" at the barrel of the wheel, it's overall diameter is around 18.5" or 472mm). Divide 472mm by 2 and you get 236, which is exactly half of the diameter of the wheel. Next I measure the distance from the bottom lip of the wheel to the edge of the fender. So using the LR as an example this measurement was 563mm. Then you just need to subtract the half wheel face measurement from that so 563-236=327mm. This gets you an exact measurement from the "center" of the wheel which is normally pretty hard to do since there isn't really anything to accurately measure from at the center and on the same plane as the fender edge.
Some old photos with a little diagram to explain:
472mm
563mm. Subtract 236 from that and get 327mm.
This will vary a little bit from car to car and with different alignments and fenders and what not, so measurements can't always be compared car to car, but I find it to be the most effective when dialing in my own ride height.
But back to my measurements. VERY happy to see how little the springs have settled and how consistent it is from spring to spring. When I installed I made sure the front and rear damper lengths were very exact from side to side, and with such little variance in how the springs settle makes it that much easier to adjust. I am going to get the header installed (which should remove a little more weight from the front end, and the will probably raise up the front a few mm to closer match the rear if needed. With the small 5mm difference front to rear the ride height visually looks very similar front to rear in terms of distance to the fender/quarter panel edge.
Just a quick Q if you don't mind. What is the current damping settings (F&R) you chose for both street & spirited driving. I know your new shocks have custom valving with 13kg springs but curious to know the usable range.
Thanks in advance.
07-14-2016, 12:56 PM
#2826
I have the standard DFV and IMO the useable range is only 10 clicks. I tried using 12 clicks out from full stiff and it felt like it had some "slop". The user manual states that for sporty driving it should be set at 10 clicks and work from there; all this 28-32-way adjustability is nonsense.
07-14-2016, 01:57 PM
#2827
Thread Starter
Great thread and heaps of info as always.
Just a quick Q if you don't mind. What is the current damping settings (F&R) you chose for both street & spirited driving. I know your new shocks have custom valving with 13kg springs but curious to know the usable range. Definitely has the ability to get stiffer than the normal DFVs with more compression damping overall. With a little more fine control.
Thanks in advance.
Just a quick Q if you don't mind. What is the current damping settings (F&R) you chose for both street & spirited driving. I know your new shocks have custom valving with 13kg springs but curious to know the usable range. Definitely has the ability to get stiffer than the normal DFVs with more compression damping overall. With a little more fine control.
Thanks in advance.
I have the standard DFV and IMO the useable range is only 10 clicks. I tried using 12 clicks out from full stiff and it felt like it had some "slop". The user manual states that for sporty driving it should be set at 10 clicks and work from there; all this 28-32-way adjustability is nonsense.
07-14-2016, 11:05 PM
#2828
What I meant to say is that anything past 10 clicks and the car loses its original handling character. Ohlins doesn't advertise any specific static numerical adjustments, but I found that from full stiff to full soft there are 30-32 clicks.
07-15-2016, 05:06 AM
#2829
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Originally Posted by andrewhake
Usable range on the SF spec DFVs is quite a bit larger. 10 clicks with the 10kg/10kg springs on normal DFVs is similar to around 12-14 clicks on this revalved setup. So it is expanded a good amount from my testing so far. Softest settings I would probably want to run for comfort is around 16-18 clicks now, but haven't fully gone through the range yet. Useable range was definitely a little more than 10 clicks with my old setup. The difference between 10 clicks and 14 clicks is very clear if you are just going for compliance. Obviously at 14 clicks the car will not be as responsive as at 10, but that is sort of the purpose. I never felt the need to try anything beyond 14 clicks on that setup as that was more than compliant enough. At 14 clicks the springs were still being well damped for normal day to day driving. No one claims 28-32 way adjustability range for DFVs, and it wouldn't be desirable anyway.
07-15-2016, 10:12 PM
#2830
Thread Starter
I have been doing some preparations making sure I am ready to install the Ikeya front upper arms so I figured I would share some details. The arms actually come with very detailed documentation and I took the time to do a rough translation to gather some of the useful information. Something I was concerned with was being able to properly measure and account for the length of the the stock suspension arms. Luckily Ikeya Formula has already done all this and they provide specific measurements of how to setup the arms for the normal OEM length.
This diagram (which I have written on for later reference) actually shows the arms setup to match the OEM length. Which according to the diagram is 213.5mm from inner to outer mounting points. The arms are essentially setup this way out of the box, with the balljoint bolts a little loose to allow for adjustment, but very easy to adjust back to the standard length.
They also list the amounts the arms can be lengthened and shortened from the OEM length. They can be extended 10.5mm, or shortened by 8.5mm from the normal OEM length arms. So a pretty massive range. Each notch on the balljoint adjustment plates is ~1mm from what I measured. You could also technically adjust the inner mount points if you wanted even more fine control. I plan to try to test out the entire range to see what the actual range of adjustment will be if time on the alignment rack allows, but I plan on just try shortening the arm by 3-4mm to maintain a usable alignment with my J's S1 joints. Might not even need to do that much but it seems like it will be an appropriate amount to get the little extra clearance I am after up front.
Ikeya Formula does mention in the documentation that with a high offset wheel it is possible to shorten the arm too much to the point that the wheel could come in contact at high steering angles. (Example they used was a 17x9+63 wheel with the arm shortened a large amount). Shouldn't be an issue with my wheel size and offset and plans for adjustment.
This diagram (which I have written on for later reference) actually shows the arms setup to match the OEM length. Which according to the diagram is 213.5mm from inner to outer mounting points. The arms are essentially setup this way out of the box, with the balljoint bolts a little loose to allow for adjustment, but very easy to adjust back to the standard length.
They also list the amounts the arms can be lengthened and shortened from the OEM length. They can be extended 10.5mm, or shortened by 8.5mm from the normal OEM length arms. So a pretty massive range. Each notch on the balljoint adjustment plates is ~1mm from what I measured. You could also technically adjust the inner mount points if you wanted even more fine control. I plan to try to test out the entire range to see what the actual range of adjustment will be if time on the alignment rack allows, but I plan on just try shortening the arm by 3-4mm to maintain a usable alignment with my J's S1 joints. Might not even need to do that much but it seems like it will be an appropriate amount to get the little extra clearance I am after up front.
Ikeya Formula does mention in the documentation that with a high offset wheel it is possible to shorten the arm too much to the point that the wheel could come in contact at high steering angles. (Example they used was a 17x9+63 wheel with the arm shortened a large amount). Shouldn't be an issue with my wheel size and offset and plans for adjustment.