andrewhake

Personally I think a lot of people put splitters on their track cars and mistake more front drag for "downforce". Having a splitter that is hanging at even slightly raked angle will almost certainly stall and really only produce more drag. With cars the placebo effect is so strong it is very easy to convince yourself that "oh yes the car feels different, I now have loads of front "downforce" and grip, so I have more confidence and I turn a faster lap time." When in reality the car wasn't being pushed to it's actual limit in the first place and the improvement in lap time was all simply down to the driver confidence.

Judging actual aerodynamic improvements is very difficult without very well controlled bench tests which remove as many variables as possible from the equation. It is definitely clear there are real performance advantages with the standard wing and splitter combo, but determining how big they are is definitely tricky when comparing different cars and drivers, tracks and so on.

andrewhake

Throwing all that stuff on your car before you are even close to the actual limit of the car will absolutely make you a slower driver though and make the entire experience worse. It is almost a "reverse" placebo effect. Starting off with a bunch of parts thrown at the car, done effectively, increasing the performance of the the car significantly, while the level of the driver is the same who never even found the limits of the stock car. Now the learning curve is increased dramatically, making the driving experience unrewarding because you are never able to achieve the lap times of others with similarly prepped cars, or even lap times of others in stock or very lightly prepared cars, and you are no closer to driving the car on the limit. That is where the real fun of driving is anyway. Setting a lap time is so meaningless to me unless I know from the drivers seat that I was pushing it as close to the limit as I can. That is why I didn't even bother posting up video and things from my first day at Sonoma. There is plenty of fun in installing parts, talking about cars and parts, and learning a new track for the first time but that is nothing in comparison to getting out and really feeling that you are pushing yourself and this machine that you are strapped into to the limit. Even better than that is the continuous reward cycle of finding the limit, increasing the limit, finding the limit, increasing the limit, and so on. If you build and drive a car that way, you will never get bored with it, even if you stop upgrading it or improving your driving at some point down the line. Being able to go out and day after day be right at that limit effortlessly and comfortably that you developed yourself to this high level of refinement is also extremely rewarding.

Anyway. Don't do the easy science experiment if you already know the boring results. Don't go through the tedious tasks of the experiment (installing parts) if you don't care about the results. Do the experiments yourself that will be difficult and risky, will continue to provide unexpected results, and will change the way you think about things. Drive your f@#king machine that was designed to be driven f@#king fast, fast. If you f@#king can't or are f@#king afraid to, f@#k off and learn how to do it on your f@#king own. If you don't want to do any of those things, then just f@#k off period.

chrisaltima

In all reality unless anyone looks like the gentleman below we are doing nothing in terms of downforce and aerodynamics. All these little tid bits (splitters, off the shelf bumpers, diffusers sides and rears) are doing nothing for the car imho. Personally I run a splitter which I use mainly to protect my OEM lip and front end.

andrewhake

Wonderful. My life is more fulfilling and complete knowing that about you. I wish you all the best in future side diffuser opinions and endeavors.

Why is this the standard dialogue when people are discussing cars? I seriously don't direct this particularly at you alone as I have already made my position on this very clear to many others, but why in the hell do people come on these forums just looking at every car in comparison to what they would do or what their decision would be? Do people walk around every day thinking this way about every person and thing they see? If they don't say it immediately they secretly harbor negative feelings about something, eating away at there very existence until it explodes in a fit of Internet commenting?

I just. don't. get it.

chrisaltima

I am a huge fan of your build and still will be regardless, but it seems like you need to have a little sex or something. You're extremely worked up out here. Chill out man it's Wednesday.

andrewhake

Well just like with your enlightened opinion on the look of side diffusers. You would be wrong. Little tid bits absolutely make a difference, it just isn't on the same level as other things because aerodynamics are just a small supplement to mechanical grip on a street car or street car turned race car. Just because the effect is small doesn't mean there is no effect. Every stupid little thing you do to the car has an effect. It is so easy for people to generalize so much when discussing cars it is almost impossible to have an interesting discussion about anything.

I came across an interesting image today with a caption of "Avoid Mt. Stupid"

andrewhake

I am not worked up at all your mom treats me really well. Heyoooooo.

Your comments and so many others (not just yours alone or in particular) just bore the living shit out of me. There has to be something more interesting than people's opinions about what they don't like. That said, I don't and won't harbor any ill fillings toward anyone on here if they dislike something I do or say about my car. (except s4play, f@#k that dude). It's all good but I just really don't care unless I ask. It's like seeing someone on the street and saying "I'm not a fan of your shoes, nice socks though.." It's just weird as hell. If you want to convince me I have made the wrong decision at least try to tell me why.

jst2878

Why didn't you go stiffer springs from the get go with your ohlins? Will you increase your rates and revalve?

andrewhake

That's more like it!

Had I known what I know now I would have gone stiffer. I definitely know I prefer using the same rates front to rear though even on a square tire setup. I wanted to know how the car behaved with relatively soft springs since I mainly drive it on the street and on pretty bumpy mountain roads. I am sure I would be happy if I had just started with 700lb/12.5kg springs immediately, but now I know in great detail what the car is like with 550lb/9.8kg springs. I am going to try out the car with the current rates and stiffer roll bars first, but it is clear to me that the benefits of slightly stiffer springs will be more than just the increased roll resistance. The little improvements in front to rear stiffness are pretty clear I think too. Particularly braking hard from high speeds. The slight decrease in time the car spends transitioning from full acceleration to full deceleration should be less and that stuff adds up corner to corner and makes the car more responsive and fun to drive. It should also allow me to decrease ride height slightly which has good benefits all around without having to worry about tire or bumper clearance quite as much. Corners with a lot of camber the car compresses quite a log and ends up putting the outside edges of the bumper very close to the ground, even with the OEM bumper with front lip. This always sort of keeps you from really attacking the corner and you end up tip toeing through it. A small change in spring rate should completely resolve that sort of thing.

I discussed rebuild/revalve with the guys at PSI but luckily with a plan my parts guy already had in place it should be even simpler than that. I will provide all the details once it happens.

jst2878

I called ohlins. They revalve for 125 a corner. I'm not sure if they sell replacement parts for service. I'd be worried about other people using inferior parts as replacements. I'm torn on 12/12 or 14/12. I'm always seeing this ratio of slightly stiffer springs on the front by around 2k, something about braking being smoother. I'm just wondering if ohlins dfv will give the ride a tad bit of a more comfortable on my back feeling with the 12k in the rear and if the revalve will give me the total amount of rebound dampening I desire. First world problems