o_O S2000 | Mk I — Stage II
#1691
My biggest surprise with the square setup so far is the balance of the car. I was definitely expecting the car to have much more of a tendency to oversteer, but it is very very neutral. I haven't had the chance to do much testing in longer steady state corners but through lower speed stuff the car is wonderfully neutral. I don't have to be gentle at all and can really dive hard into a corner. I am guessing this mainly has to do with the increased negative camber in the rear going from -2.6 to -3.0. I am probably making better use of the tire but still I am surprised at how stable the car is. In many cases I may not be at the limit so have to take that into account as well, but man does this car feel crazy fast now.
I definitely won't be running staggered spring rates on this car like a lot of people choose to do with a square setup. I don't feel that there is a dramatic increase in dive under braking so far and generally the balance feels great. In the past my off track testing has reflected my on track experience with the car pretty well.
Definitely has me wondering how much of an effect the +9mm of rca really does have in the front. With the staggered setup I was sort of compensating with the -2.8 F -2.6 R camber to help get the car more neutral. Technically I went from having slightly stiffer springs in the rear stock to the same springs all around with the Ohlins so that has an effect as well. I think it is time for me to pick up a Pyrometer and dial in the camber and then fine tune the balance from there with additional front RCA plates and adjustable roll bars as needed.
Baffled oil pan is definitely happening as part of my next oil change also.
I definitely won't be running staggered spring rates on this car like a lot of people choose to do with a square setup. I don't feel that there is a dramatic increase in dive under braking so far and generally the balance feels great. In the past my off track testing has reflected my on track experience with the car pretty well.
Definitely has me wondering how much of an effect the +9mm of rca really does have in the front. With the staggered setup I was sort of compensating with the -2.8 F -2.6 R camber to help get the car more neutral. Technically I went from having slightly stiffer springs in the rear stock to the same springs all around with the Ohlins so that has an effect as well. I think it is time for me to pick up a Pyrometer and dial in the camber and then fine tune the balance from there with additional front RCA plates and adjustable roll bars as needed.
Baffled oil pan is definitely happening as part of my next oil change also.
When running staggered pads for one event last year, there was a decent amount of brake dive (it was certainly manageable) so I'm going to run 11kg front springs w/ the stock KW 8kg springs in the rear and stick w/ the '00 FSB and reinstall the '06 RSB. Are you running staggered pads? The concern w/o staggered pads is the rear will lock up before the fronts.. I'm thinking the stiffer front springs should help slightly w/ brake dive and also make the car more neutral. Anything else I plan to balance out w/ shock adjustments and alignment.
I have some RCA's w/ offset balljoints for the front, but I'm thinking I might need something to add camber in the rear. I'm a little undecided what to do with the alignment or more specifically camber, but maybe I'll cross that bridge after I see how the car feels.
I'd definitely run a baffled pan if at least for piece of mind.
#1692
Thread Starter
Unfortunately my car's been sitting and haven't had a chance to drive it, but I'm eager to see how it does. What swaybars are you running? On my staggered setup I ran a '00 FSB and '02 RSB with KWV3's on 8kg/mm springs. I can't remember my alignment. I think I was maxed up front with around -2 camber in the front and something like 2.5 in the rear. I do find it interesting how people tend to run more front camber going to a square setup, when I think more camber in the rear might help make the car less loose.
When running staggered pads for one event last year, there was a decent amount of brake dive (it was certainly manageable) so I'm going to run 11kg front springs w/ the stock KW 8kg springs in the rear and stick w/ the '00 FSB and reinstall the '06 RSB. Are you running staggered pads? The concern w/o staggered pads is the rear will lock up before the fronts.. I'm thinking the stiffer front springs should help slightly w/ brake dive and also make the car more neutral. Anything else I plan to balance out w/ shock adjustments and alignment.
I have some RCA's w/ offset balljoints for the front, but I'm thinking I might need something to add camber in the rear. I'm a little undecided what to do with the alignment or more specifically camber, but maybe I'll cross that bridge after I see how the car feels.
I'd definitely run a baffled pan if at least for piece of mind.
When running staggered pads for one event last year, there was a decent amount of brake dive (it was certainly manageable) so I'm going to run 11kg front springs w/ the stock KW 8kg springs in the rear and stick w/ the '00 FSB and reinstall the '06 RSB. Are you running staggered pads? The concern w/o staggered pads is the rear will lock up before the fronts.. I'm thinking the stiffer front springs should help slightly w/ brake dive and also make the car more neutral. Anything else I plan to balance out w/ shock adjustments and alignment.
I have some RCA's w/ offset balljoints for the front, but I'm thinking I might need something to add camber in the rear. I'm a little undecided what to do with the alignment or more specifically camber, but maybe I'll cross that bridge after I see how the car feels.
I'd definitely run a baffled pan if at least for piece of mind.
I have never really run staggered pads and never had an issue with the rear locking up before the fronts. The only time I have experienced that is when trying out pads on the rear that I knew had more initial bite than the pads I was running on the front. Technically I am running the Winmax W5s in front and Project µ Club Racers in the rear now, so I guess that is a very slight stagger but if anything I think I could use more bite in the rear now so I will be putting the W5s back on the rear soon.
The W5s definitely make less noise with the Spoon calipers. I also love how easy it is to check the pad wear now. When looking at the pads with everything installed it is really clear to see how much more open space there is around the pads so hopefully the cooling will be improved. Big difference when it is just the pistons pushing the pad against the rotor, and not a big hunk of metal wrapping around the backing plate. Should be interesting to see what sort of difference there is with the same pads and rotors I was using before.
#1693
I have only run the stock 06 sway bars. I am planning on getting ASM sway bars. I like the rates they chose and that they are 3-way adjustable. They are expensive but they are the only ones that offer what I want. I just don't see the need for some of the crazy stiff sway bars available.
I have never really run staggered pads and never had an issue with the rear locking up before the fronts. The only time I have experienced that is when trying out pads on the rear that I knew had more initial bite than the pads I was running on the front. Technically I am running the Winmax W5s in front and Project µ Club Racers in the rear now, so I guess that is a very slight stagger but if anything I think I could use more bite in the rear now so I will be putting the W5s back on the rear soon.
#1694
Originally Posted by SlowTeg' timestamp='1429562243' post='23584913
Unfortunately my car's been sitting and haven't had a chance to drive it, but I'm eager to see how it does. What swaybars are you running? On my staggered setup I ran a '00 FSB and '02 RSB with KWV3's on 8kg/mm springs. I can't remember my alignment. I think I was maxed up front with around -2 camber in the front and something like 2.5 in the rear. I do find it interesting how people tend to run more front camber going to a square setup, when I think more camber in the rear might help make the car less loose.
When running staggered pads for one event last year, there was a decent amount of brake dive (it was certainly manageable) so I'm going to run 11kg front springs w/ the stock KW 8kg springs in the rear and stick w/ the '00 FSB and reinstall the '06 RSB. Are you running staggered pads? The concern w/o staggered pads is the rear will lock up before the fronts.. I'm thinking the stiffer front springs should help slightly w/ brake dive and also make the car more neutral. Anything else I plan to balance out w/ shock adjustments and alignment.
I have some RCA's w/ offset balljoints for the front, but I'm thinking I might need something to add camber in the rear. I'm a little undecided what to do with the alignment or more specifically camber, but maybe I'll cross that bridge after I see how the car feels.
I'd definitely run a baffled pan if at least for piece of mind.
When running staggered pads for one event last year, there was a decent amount of brake dive (it was certainly manageable) so I'm going to run 11kg front springs w/ the stock KW 8kg springs in the rear and stick w/ the '00 FSB and reinstall the '06 RSB. Are you running staggered pads? The concern w/o staggered pads is the rear will lock up before the fronts.. I'm thinking the stiffer front springs should help slightly w/ brake dive and also make the car more neutral. Anything else I plan to balance out w/ shock adjustments and alignment.
I have some RCA's w/ offset balljoints for the front, but I'm thinking I might need something to add camber in the rear. I'm a little undecided what to do with the alignment or more specifically camber, but maybe I'll cross that bridge after I see how the car feels.
I'd definitely run a baffled pan if at least for piece of mind.
I have never really run staggered pads and never had an issue with the rear locking up before the fronts. The only time I have experienced that is when trying out pads on the rear that I knew had more initial bite than the pads I was running on the front. Technically I am running the Winmax W5s in front and Project µ Club Racers in the rear now, so I guess that is a very slight stagger but if anything I think I could use more bite in the rear now so I will be putting the W5s back on the rear soon.
The W5s definitely make less noise with the Spoon calipers. I also love how easy it is to check the pad wear now. When looking at the pads with everything installed it is really clear to see how much more open space there is around the pads so hopefully the cooling will be improved. Big difference when it is just the pistons pushing the pad against the rotor, and not a big hunk of metal wrapping around the backing plate. Should be interesting to see what sort of difference there is with the same pads and rotors I was using before.
Here's the link
#1695
Thread Starter
Why the ASM? Evasive, Rob Walker, and plenty of people (including myself but that's not saying anything at all) run the Eibach sway and it's a great piece for 1/4 the price of the ASM. Plus the Eibach is adjustable too. In fact Rob posted a review on the Eibach and seems to really like it. You may have seen it already, it's on s2ki somewhere.
Here's the link
Here's the link
The ASM bars are 3-way adjustable and the Eibach are 2-way. There are the mega-stiff highly adjustable bars that many auto-x guys use but those are quite expensive, run into clearance issues on some dampers, and provide way stiffer adjustments than I would ever want. It's mainly the 3-way adjustability that I like with the ASM though and the rates. I wish they weren't so expensive.
#1697
Why the ASM? Evasive, Rob Walker, and plenty of people (including myself but that's not saying anything at all) run the Eibach sway and it's a great piece for 1/4 the price of the ASM. Plus the Eibach is adjustable too. In fact Rob posted a review on the Eibach and seems to really like it. You may have seen it already, it's on s2ki somewhere.
Here's the link
Here's the link
#1698
Thread Starter
I plan on testing it out pretty thoroughly with the 10/10 setup. But I think 12/12 will be the better setup in the long run so I will try that at some point. The 10/10 setup feels great so far but I think I could use more lateral roll stiffness especially on track. So I am going to try out roll bars first and go from there. Which won't necessarily chance the balance just increase the roll stiffness overall. From there I may add additional roll center adjustment to fine tune the balance if necessary. I prefer to not have to use the roll bars to dial in the overall balance so I can use their full range for fine tuning per track.
#1699
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by WhyW' timestamp='1429660527' post='23586537
Why the ASM? Evasive, Rob Walker, and plenty of people (including myself but that's not saying anything at all) run the Eibach sway and it's a great piece for 1/4 the price of the ASM. Plus the Eibach is adjustable too. In fact Rob posted a review on the Eibach and seems to really like it. You may have seen it already, it's on s2ki somewhere.
Here's the link
Here's the link
ASM rates are listed as follows on their site:
FRONT AP1-100 AP2-110
soft 70.9% 95.8%
middle 79.0% 106.6%
hard 87.9% 118.5%
REAR AP1-100 AP2-110
soft 82.8% 104.5%
middle 94.7% 119.4%
hard 109.6% 138.2%
I trust that they got info from Honda before choosing their rates so according to that info I would be able to run in a range just slightly stiffer than my current AP2-110 rates. And even slightly less in the front if I wanted. Which is what I am after. I assume that my car uses the same rates as the JDM AP2-110 but that could be wrong. The rear Eibach bar is significantly stiffer than my current rear bar front and rear bar according to their info, and I don't like that they use Urethane bushings that need to be greased, although that is probably pretty minor. The Eibach F + R kit isn't actually that much cheaper than ASM if comparing retail prices. I still need to see how much of the distributor markup that I can cut down though.
It's more in the spirit of just trying something different really. A few others have had the ASM bars but there haven't been any real driving impressions that I could find.