andrewhake

"EDIT: Actually Anish might have just come through with the hookup on the Project µ super tasty brake drink! " (this was posted an hour or so ago) and now..

This is sitting on my desk:



Project µ G-four 335 brake fluid. I felt that the ATE fluid was ok for most of my uses, but driving at Laguna Seca is something I plan to do as often as I can afford to when there is a good event being held, and for someone that really likes to brake hard, it just might not be up to snuff. I REALLY like braking, everything about it, and I plan to be able to brake like a champ on my next visit to Laguna. This is part of that puzzle as well as some higher temp track pads that will be a good match for my beloved HC+800 pads I love for the street and certain tracks. As discussed with Anish (the person that I have been purchasing my braking stuff through) once the HC+800 start to get near their upper temperature limits they start to erode quickly when they remain at that level for extended periods, where the Project µ Club Racer pad has a sweet spot more in higher range that is suitable for a track like Laguna.

The Club Racers on the touge would likely not work well as the time required to get them up to temp is much greater, getting the HC+800 up to temp in the mountains can usually be done in a few corners and the temps stay right in the range they work pest for a solid 10-20 minute run. The ambient and road temps in the mountains are MUCH lower than most track days and the HC+800 have been excellent for me at any temperature and even in the pouring rain I can get them to temps where they are still very effective and predictable. The OEM AP2 pads will do all of this as well in the mountains for many drivers, but for some of the higher speed stuff they were just a bit too easy for me to fade. And even in the really technical stuff with tight corner after tight corner where they don't get much of a chance to cool down.

Thanks again Anish! This stuff looks tasty! I am going to pour it on all of my favorite dishes.

goteki

Been reading this thread in parts and finally got through it all.

Funny how similar our back stories are. Thought I'd never own an S2000 because of Missouri winters (and summers, for that matter).

I know you were thinking about getting P.MU Club Racers to replace the HC+s... just for the track, or all day erry day?

andrewhake

Yeah I plan on getting some Club Racers for my next Laguna visit for sure, but I love the HC+800. After testing them out hard at Laguna they seem to erode quickly though when at really high temps, they were still stopping the car just fine at high temps, but easy to tell they were getting a bit to hot. Club Racers should much happier at those temps but won't work well on the cold touge runs where lots of warm up isn't always possible. Club Racers are pretty well priced compared to other track pads, especially with the local bay area hookup!

Speaking of brakes, just re-upped my rear pads, and changed to Project µ G-four 335 brake fluid. Much more expensive for 1L compared to ATE, but I expect to get much more life out of it and definitely don't expect to have any issues with it boiling.



Could have gotten a liiittle bit more out of these rear pads, but they served me well, so was time to put them into retirement.





I also had the spark plugs changed since I was right around 75k miles.

Joey was installing some HKS coilovers on his recently acquired EK9 CTR replica.

HunterX

Just got to say I appreciate this thread so much, thank you for taking the time to put this together.

andrewhake

Thanks and no worries, build threads are a great way to keep yourself in check when it comes to cars.

andrewhake

Driving impressions update!

I was lucky enough to spend some time driving some other S2000s this weekend back to back with my own, and wanted to share my impressions. I drove all of the cars on the same stretch of mountain road that I am very familiar with. Tight to mid-speed corners, lots of cambered corners, good stuff. Suspension differences are the focus here.



First is the white 06 AP2 with the full CR/Type S setup. CR springs/dampers, sway bars, steering rack stiffener, 215/255 tires (Dunlop ZII) on CR wheels, OEM CR alignment specs, etc.


https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/995...-build-thread/

The CR dampers are very nice and definitely no issues at all with imperfections in the road. The spring rates definitely don't feel dramatically stiffer but a nice noticeable decrease in dive under braking and roll with turn in response increased slightly as well. One thing I definitely don't understand with the CR setup is why the front spring rate bias was increased while only increasing the width of the rear tire. I felt the balance is definitely shifted more towards understeer compared to my stock 06 AP2 with 225F/255R setup (RE-11). It isn't a drastic shift but definitely noticeable coming from my own car with a bit more neutral setup. If I did a CR suspension setup I would want to have the same spring rate in the rear that is in the front. Overall though the increase in response is excellent and is a great way to make the S2000 a bit easier to drive at the limit. In many circumstances it might be easier to drive faster as well depending on your driving style. This car also had diff mount collars installed, I was focusing more on other things while driving, but definitely a nice increase in drivetrain response as well. Aero effect was negligible on the section of road I was driving the car on but overall a great setup with the only negative being the understeer tendency for my own driving style.

Next was an S2000 I have driven before but not since getting my S2000.


https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/100...rl-yellow-ap2/

This car has CR suspension setup, front x-brace, front cusco subframe brace, front strut tower bar, diff mount collars, 225/255 Federal RSR tires, OEM CR alignment specs, intake, header, exhaust, etc. Also a Recaro Pole Position so very easy to tell what the car is doing through corners. Another thing to note is that this car also has a rear subwoofer that definitely adds a bit of weight in the trunk of the car.

The response from all of the bracing is fantastic. Probably a small change for most people, but if you spend any decent amount of time driving cars quickly it is very noticeable. Chassis bracing is definitely the first plan of attack when I start modifying my own car. While the increase in front spring rate was definitely still noticeable in this car, I noticed less of a bias towards understeer than I did on the GPW setup with OEM tire sizes. I would guess the 225/255 is the biggest factor here. Again the bracing is what made the largest impression on me though. Definitely feels like the springs and dampers are able to work more effectively, even with the increase in spring rate the car seemed to handle bumps much more effectively than mine. This is huge for driving on the mountains, there will be nice bumps and imperfections on almost any mountain road. Better use of the suspension translates to better use of the tires and better feedback to the driver. Great setup.

Next I did a car swap with a monster...

Another good friend of mine who is up at the top of my greatest drivers list asked if I wanted to trade cars with him for a few runs up and down. His car being a highly tuned Audi S4 with the works, I said yes without much hesitation. The twin turbo V6 makes around 400 HP, the car rides on an incredible Ohlins remote reservoir damper setup with 800lb/in F and 1000lb/in R springs, 265 tires all around on forged Work 18x9.5 wheels, Alcon 6 pot front calipers, floating disks, and many other things. The car is about as perfect as a Audi S4 can possibly be out on the mountains.



First the owner of the Audi (James) hopped in my car (I have been driving with him for quite sometime, if I owned a Ferrari I would let him take it out drifting in the rain) and I was really excited to ride passenger in my own car with another great driver at the controls. I definitely recommend doing the same whenever you can, find a driver that you believe is better than you, and see what they do in your own car that you are very familiar with. James also spends quite a lot of time in a bone stock 91 Miata that he owns (when it is raining the Miata comes out to slide in the rain) so he is very familiar with driving lightweight FR cars. He was pretty impressed with how much cornering speed the S2000 can manage at first, obviously one of the strongest points of the car. He was taking it relatively easy and spending most of his time seeing how the car behaved through corner entry and exit. Me encouraging him to enter corners faster and faster. He had a blast driving my car, it is great to ride with someone who has a driving style very similar to your own, I was never once afraid for the well-being of myself or my car even with him experimenting with how the car would slide through lower speed corners. Definitely opened up my eyes a bit in how I can improve my low speed corner entry to maintain more momentum.

Next I hopped in the Audi with James as passenger. It took me quite a bit of time to adjust to the car. Much longer shift throw, much more heavily assisted brake pedal, pedal spacing differences, and lots and lots of power. It is amazing how entirely different this car is from the S2000, but still just as much fun. While I never got close to the potential of the car it was fantastic to slowly get acquainted with it and get faster and faster. Once I was used to the braking power and pedal spacing the real fun began. This was my first time driving a powerful AWD car in the mountains but with a good driver explaining the behavior of the car it was easy to pickup. Throttle control was extremely important, very easy to control the rear end with the throttle but in a different way than the S2000. Lifting off the throttle quickly, the rear end would start to come around like it would in a well setup FF car (which I have experience driving), but if you are smooth with all your inputs and lift off the throttle appropriately the car just grips through the corner and then launches out of the exit. Smooth braking inputs transitioning smoothly back to partial throttle mid-corner after tossing it into a corner off throttle, and a nice transition to full throttle and hang on for dear life once at full boost. There was no noticeable lag, even when just at partial throttle the difference in power was incredible. The weight is definitely noticeable but never in a way I saw as a negative really. If driven incorrectly the car could definitely be scary, but once you get the hang of it nothing but uncontrollable joy. The suspension setup is glorious. The spring rates seem to be a perfect match for the weight and balance of the car, and really didn't feel any more jarring while driving normally than the stock S2000 setup due to the incredible dampers. I could go on and on about this car but I will stop here for now. I imagine as I start modifying my car we will be doing more of these car swaps in the future, so I will definitely post back with more impressions and hopefully some videos in the future!

Then at last back into my own car. I thought I was ruined forever after driving the Audi, but not at all. The S4 was fun in an entirely different way compared to the S2000, and the S2000 cornering speed is just so damn high even when completely stock. Throughout the entire night of driving I felt a nice increase in brake feel after switching to the Project µ fluid. It is possible it is due to a better bleeding this time around, but the bleeding was done using the same method as with the ATE. I am really excited to use this fluid at my next track day to see if it will handle the temps. I had wore away my nice transfer layer on my rotors over the last week and that same night with the lower speed stuff we were doing and the cold ambient temps, so I actually generated a bit of judder from pad material transferring to the rotor once the pads finally got the chance to warm up from completely cold on the final dowhnill run. This was quickly resolved with some simply freeway cruising and a mini bed-in cycle on my way home though. Couldn't be happier with my current brake pad and fluid setup at the moment for the mountains.

I definitely plan on doing this again if possible with these cars and drivers. It would have been better to drive both cars, and then go for ride alongs with the owners driving to see how they drive it at the limit, so that will be the plan for next time.

TougeHorseman

Wonderful write up of your experiences driving the cars of three members of the crew.

andrewhake

Thanks again!

Can't wait to start adding chassis bracing to my car to see how it behaves with the stock suspension. My plan of attack will start with Spoon Subframe Rigid Collars and go on from there. So many good options for the S2000. Hopefully my future budget will allow for some nice shiny ASM chassis bracing goodies.

darkfalcon

Excellent write-up! I certainly had no qualms at all you driving my car, and it intrigues me how much more I could improve seeing you take my car through its paces. Thanks again for the praise on all of our cars

andrewhake

A great photo from my good friend Alexey Orlov from Friday night. Super clear with a super moon.



And one of his Hachiroku.



The moon was even brighter saturday night. Getting excited to see the weather getting better in better at the wee hours of the morning.