I can't wait for the updates and to take all the photos!!!

 

my favorite ap1 lip

 

Glad to see you finally got the lip man!

 

Damn feezy, where the hell did you find that?? I browsed for months looking for one, even tried to source the mould or - shoot me if you like - source a replica of it. It's the best lip ever for the ap1 front.

 

One of my favorite cars on the forum! I think we both have very similar taste in modifications and I love the simplicity of your car and overall attention to detail you have put into it.

I look forward to seeing the Gears lip fixed up and mounted on the car (hands down my favorite AP1 lip) and I am very jealous of the premium mats, they are one of those things I will always have on my "wanted list".

 

Glad the lip finally got to you.

 

Jesus man, where the hell did you source that ?

 

For those wondering where he sourced it have none of you seen the ordeal with Mcfab?

I am so glad you managed to get this lip feezy. If must feel amazing after all these years to have it and I know you will have it looking factory fresh in a short while.

 

I'm going to be editing this for quite some time to clean up all my shitty typing.

So... here is what happened...

Ever since I had my first S2000 I wanted a Gears lip. I actually purchased a replica version of the lip back in 02' or 03' but it fit so terribly I sent it back to the vendor and purchased an OEM lip and left it at that. I knew that I always wanted one, and I casually looked for one ever since but I was never able to find one for sale.

Earlier this year some guy made a thread in the WTB section looking for a Gears lip. He didn't care whether it was authentic or replica he just wanted a lip and had plans to replicate it. Apparently a member on this site decided that it was time to part with their lip and ended up working out a deal with him. I sent a PM to the guy who ended up purchasing the lip, and let him know that should he decide to sell it I wanted it. I gave him phone numbers, emails, whatever information he needed to get in contact with me should the day come that he decided to sell the lip. I also made it a point to send him PM's every so often to make sure that he knew I was serious and that I had money waiting to go should the lip ever come up for sale.

Fast forward a couple months and this member had become a vendor on the forums. He was marketing replicas that he supposedly had created off of a mold of the authentic lip. I saw this and sent him a message. I figured if he wasn't originally concerned with an authentic lip then he might be willing to part with the real one now that he had replicated it. I wasn't super excited about the lip being replicated, but the thought of actually getting my hands on a piece that I had been after for the last 10 years or so was so overwhelming that I had to go for it.

I sent him a PM and we discussed me purchasing the lip. We went back and forth but eventually we came to an agreement of $1,000 shipped and Paypaled. Now normally I don't see a point in publicly disclosing figures, but for the sake of the story and documentation it matters.

The following are the terms and conditions that we came to:

S2KI Conversation:

"Do you need me to Paypal you right now, or can I hold off until you have the lip in hand? Let me know what works for you. With you being a vendor on here and with all the communication we've had back and forth I'm reasonably comfortable sending you the cash.

I just want to make sure, that we have everything outlined. Like I said, I've been burned in the past, and I always try to err on the side of caution when dealing with long distance transactions. So, in summary:

I will be Paypal'ing you $1,000 at W.lewis.inc@gmail.com for the authentic Gears lip. This lip is primered and undamaged. This includes shipping, Paypal feels, tracking number, and insurance. Please package the lip up as securely as possible to ensure that it arrives to my house in one piece. If there is a quicker/more secure shipping option that isn't insanely expensive let me know, it might be something that I can do."

His Reply:

"That's fine. I could be able to ship you the lip out as early as Monday morning. I usually have fed ex or ups pick parts going out from the shop. If you want to get the payment sent now that would be fine, that way were squared away and I can purchase the shipping label and have that out of the way. My name is will and my cellphone number is ********** if you need me. Everything in your summary looks spot on."


Paypal Payment:

"This is Feezy from S2ki. This payment is for the Authentic Gears Lip. This lip is primered and undamaged. This includes shipping, tracking number, and insurance. Please package the lip up as securely as possible. You have my contact info if you need to get ahold of me."


The image I was provided to prove it's authenticity:


Original


I sent the money and eagerly awaited the arrival of the lip. Again, this is a piece that I had been after for so long. Before I bought this car I knew how the build was going to go. I had been planning this out for years. I've always regretted selling my first S000 and I was determined to pick up another New Formula Red AP1 and build it the way I originally wanted too. I couldn't believe that I had actually found his damn thing.

After a multitude of deadlines had come and gone I started to become irritated. I had been promised multiple times that the lip would ship out that day, or the next day, or the coming weekend, ect... At some point he would stop answering my phone calls and responding to my text messages. I then sent the following message to one of the local site moderators:

I'm having some trouble with the vendor.

He is selling the replica Gears lips in the sponsors exterior forum. I contacted him and purchased the Authentic version of the lip from him (the one he used to make the molds from). I paid $1,000 for the lip, shipping, Paypal fees, insurance, and tracking through Paypal. I will provide you with a brief history of events below, if you need more specifics I can provide copies of out PM's and texts. I paid this guy on 7/2 and with it now being 7/23 and after him missing 5 deadlines and not following up a single time I was beginning to near the end of my patience.

I was first told that it was going to ship on the weekend after the 2nd. After he missed that deadline I followed up and was told that it was going to ship on 9th. I followed up on the 10th and he responded with pictures of massive flooding in his area and said he couldn't get to work ect... He then stated that he will get the lip picked up and shipped out that weekend. After that didn't happen he stopped responding or reading my PM's so I began sending texts.

On the 19th I was told that he had it boxed and was going to ship it tomorrow. He added that his sister got married, his son turned one, and during a flooding his basement was destroyed. All totally understandable reasons for delay, but the fact that I had to follow up each time really aggravates me. On the 20th I asked him if he was able to ship the lip, he said yes but that the tracking number was at home on his dresser. Every day since then I have followed up and been told that he 'hasn't been home' or today he just stopped responding.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I've tried following up with PM's and text for the past few days. He hasn't looked at my PM's since the 10th I think, and he stopped responding to my texts a few days ago.

I'm getting incredibly irritated at this point. I've been after that lip for almost 10 years now, and to get this close and have things fall apart really sucks. It looks like he's failing to communicate with anyone else who also made a purchase through him.

Is starting a dispute through Paypal my only course of action now? Can you provide any assistance?

Please let me know,

Thank you.

Feezy


I had never had to deal with any of the moderators on the site and wasn't sure if they would be able to assist me. I figured as this guy was a vendor, it was worth a shot.

I also took the day off of work in an attempt to resolve the issue. I figured that maybe if I could get a hold of him we could get this situation worked out. I also noticed that the four guys who had paid him for the replicas were also getting the run around. So I figured I might try finding out some information on this guy to see if there was anything that I could use.

I had the name on his Paypal email, a phone number, and the Photobucket account that he had linked to me with the picture of the Gears logo. From pictures I was able to determine license plate numbers, house numbers, maybe a few street addresses, nothing that was really valuable to me. However I was able to find a few pictures that he had snapped off of a fight he had gotten into with someone on Facebook. I figured I'd try searching for the names on Facebook and see if I could come up with anything that matched the names that I had. After a while I found what I thought was his profile. Apparently this guy is some sort of quasi-rapper out in PA. There is some Facebook with the standard thug life pictures... empty booze bottles, pit bulls, trashy chicks.. ect. I also noticed a Twitter handle on the main page background so I headed off in that direction.

I pulled up the twitter handle and that really didn't give me anything, however it did lead to an Instagram account. As soon as I found the Instagram account I knew I had struck gold. He has pictures of everything there, most specifically his car. I was then able to determine that I had in fact tracked down the right guy. I also found a link to his YouTube channel. I'm not going to link any of that here because the situation has been handled and I'm not trying to start any trouble for this guy, I also don't really feel like giving him the extra traffic.

Now that I knew that I had the right guy I started a PM to all of the other guys who had sent him money. I gave them all the information that I had managed to dig up and asked if they had any ideas on what we could do. You can imagine my surprise when about 30 minutes later I received a text from this guy informing me that he has been out of town and this is all a big misunderstanding. He assure me that he would resolve the situation. I passed on his message to the other guys and thought that was that.

Fortunately some of the other guys didn't believe his story and proceeded to dig through his Instagram. Ironically while he was "out of town dealing with a family matter" he was also still in town riding his new motorcycle around with his buddies. I thought that was a little strange and from a few of the comments I was able to determine that the motorcycle was a new acquisition that he had acquired by trading his S2000 to one of his friends. I managed to find his friends Instagram and confirm this. I also noticed that the car no longer had the Gears lip on it, so I was still hopeful that this was simply a misunderstanding. To be safe I opened a Paypal claim and escalated it to a dispute. I figured that this might be some good motivation as I had paid him a considerable amount of money and was still empty handed after a month's time.

Through the combination of Instagram, Facebook, and the magical Iphone we had managed to narrow down his home address, and place of work to one or two places. The amount of information that I was able to obtain is terrifying. On top of all that I started receiving PM's from people offering assistance. I received several from guys who were local to him who apparently had previous dealings with him who had left a bad taste in their mouth. I received additional information from them, but I was very hesitant to listen to them at first. I figured they were just separate accounts that he was using to find out what information that I knew of, but to my surprise they weren't. I was led to his regular Facebook page which was under a different name, as well as provided an address that was claimed to be his mother's house. On top of all that I received an PM from someone who provided me with an outrageous amount of information. I was given his name, know aliases, parents names, dob's the list went on and on. The crazy thing was that all of that information lined up with what I had. I figured I would just sit on everything until I needed it. Hell, just having the information didn't solve the problem and I really didn't know what to do with it anyway.

A couple days later he stopped taking calls or responding to text messages again. By this point I had one or two moderators in the PM that I had started with the other guy who had gotten ripped off. We all started looking into things. One of the other members kept insisting that we should be looking for the supposed fabricator who was making the replicas. I didn't put much thought into it because I really didn't think it would happen.

A few days or maybe a week later we all received a text message from the vendor of three lips sitting in an old industrial building. We shared this with the moderators. Sam_Spider was one of the moderators. Him and another member started looking for fabrication shops in the Pittsburgh area that specialized in Corvette parts. At some point the vendor had made reference to the guy who was making the parts for him and mentioned that he did a lot of work on old Corvettes.

At this point Sam and the other member started taking fabrication shops that I can only assume they found on Google, and plugging that information into Google Earth I think it was. They were trying to identify an exterior of a building that looked like it could be the exterior of the picture that we had received. I believe Sam presented us with a few options on places that he had found, but one of them decided that it was a no-go due to the owner of that business passing away a few years back. I saw the PM and figured if we had a lead to a shop that had a phone number and a working website at the very least it was worth a call.

I headed outside (I'm at work at this point), to make a call to the shop. I pulled up the website and got the number and called it up. To my surprise a lady answered, and I inquired as to whether or not they sold parts for older Corvettes. She said that they did. I then explained to her that I had the craziest question and I just needed a few minutes of her time. I explained the situation from top to bottom. I let her know that we had five people who were out parts and money. I explained how I had been hunting for this piece for so long and after sending a large sum of money the guy basically vanished. We talked, well, I talked for 5 - 20 minutes. It felt like she legitimately wanted to help but before I got off the phone with her he asked me is I truly was from Arizona. I told her I was, and she replied back with "then why are you calling me from a Northern California number?". I explained, that was where I grew up and that after I made my transition to Arizona I had decided to keep that number because with cell phones long distance is basically free. I had the number for so long it seemed easier to just keep it. She laughed and told me she was on vacation out in Sonoma County (where I grew up) and that she normally doesn't answer calls while on vacation. She had only picked up the call because she thought I was someone from Ticketmaster calling her about a concert she was attending later that night. She also explained that she only sells Corvette parts and had no idea about anything S2000 related. She said she would check with her fabricator and she what she could do and that she would give me call back if she heard anything. I apologized for interrupting her vacation and thanked her for her time. It only took about 5-10 minutes for her to call me back. Apparently her fabricator was the one who was replicating the lips and was happy to talk to me. She then gave me his number. I thanked her profusely and the called the fabricator.

I talked to this guy for at least an hour and a half. I explained the situation over and over, I walked him through all the dates, and I explained the situation as best as I could. He mentioned that he routinely ships items out to customers and that he had the capability to ship the lip to me directly, however I was not his customer. He suggested that I call the vendor in an attempt to have him authorize Chris (the Fab guy) to ship the lip to me directly. Here is the post I made after talking to the vendor and McFab:

Update:

Long story short with the help of several site members and a few moderators I was able to get the majority of this situation sorted out. After countless hours of digging, searching, comparing photos to Google earth locations, making phone calls, and digging into every lead we could find, I managed to get in touch directly with McFab's fabrication guy. Don't worry about how for now, it's a long story and I'll update everyone once the lip shows up on my door. For now the authentic lip and a few of the replicas have been located.

When I got in touch with the Fab guy and explained the situation he seemed genuinely interested in helping everyone get this situation resolved. I explained that there was a group of us who had paid for a replica lip 30-45 days ago and were having trouble getting a hold of and getting answers out of the original vendor. I also explained that I had purchased the original copy of this lip that he was using to make the molds. He confirmed that the lip he had in his hands has the 'Gears' logo embedded into the back of the lip.

We talked at length and I attempted to come up with a solution that would solve everyone's issues and result in every person walking away happy and satisfied with our transaction, including McFab. I ended my phone call with the Fab guy and told him I would be contacting McFab and discussing possible a possible resolution with him. I would then have McFab contact him and ok the plan.

I then called McFab and left a voice mail. I calmly explained that I felt I had come up with a way to resolve everyone's issues and everyone would walk away happy. I requested that he call me back so that we could discuss. I sent him a text explaining the same. About 30-45 minutes later I received a call from McFab. I explained to him that I had contacted his fabrication guy. I explained that his fab guy routinely ships out items once he is done making them as that is his business. I had discussed with the Fab guy that once he was done refinishing the authentic lip he ship it out to me directly in a very secure box. At that point the Fab guy would provide both me and McFab the tracking number so that McFab could respond to my escalated Paypal claim and that it could be postponed until the lip arrived at my house. At which point when I verified that I received the authentic lip that I paid for I would close the claim. McFab agreed and said that he would contact his Fab guy to confirm. He did contact his fabrication guy and confirm the plan. He mentioned that he was about 2 hours away from the fabricator and if he could just box and ship the lips out as well that would save him a ton of time and headache. He mentioned just forwarding the fabricator payment for everyone's shipping and having it done.

I also believe that the replicas were to be shipped directly from the fabricators location as well. I do not know specifically what is happening with those. I asked the fabricator if he needed everyone's shipping address or if McFab would be contacting him with them. He was under the impression from the voicemail that he was left that he was only handling the authentic lip. When I last spoke with McFab he was going to come online and post up. I told him I would be doing this in the meantime to get everyone publicly on the same page.

I still have some concerns that I would like to address. The authentic lip needs some work, I will go into that in detail below but it brings up a new issue. My Paypal claim expires on the 3rd, this Saturday. The lip is not expected to be complete until next week, but the fabricator is going what he can to complete it in a timely manner. McFab has yet to respond to my Paypal claim and I advised him to go in and put his side of the story so that the claim could be extended until I have the authentic lip in my hands. He has yet to respond to the Paypal claim. I need to make it publicly clear that if this Paypal claim expires I will resend the funds once the lip is in my hands in the described condition. I am not out to screw McFab. I simply want what I paid for and I will honor our deal should it come to that.

Now, the reason that the authentic lip needs to be refinished is because the fabricator stats that he was never informed how rare the lip was. I spoke with McFab about this and he assure me that he was. Regardless.... the lip was "Beat to Hell" during the fabrication process. Unfortunately the the fabricator did not know enough about the product to protect the 'Gears' logo that is present on the rear of the lip. The back side is covered with molding spray or something along those lines that's basically the equivalent of neon orange spray paint. Thankfully the fabricator seems to really know his shit. He is in the process of refinishing the lip on both the inside and outside. I've seen a picture of it and the progress looks great. He's going over the inside with a thinner to remove the 'paint' and then lightly going over everything with a super high grit sand paper to get it all clear and smooth again. Once that's complete he is going to spray the inside with a thin coat of clear surfboard acrylic to protect and gloss the back side. The front needs to be refinished as well because as I mentioned earlier it was a bit beat up during the refinishing process.

That is where we stand right now.

- The Fabricator has the Authentic, has made 2 replicas and is making 3 more for McFab.

- The Fabricator will ship the authentic directly to me (at my expense) once he has completed restoring it.

- I will touch base with McFab again to verify that the replicas will be shipped out directly from the fabricator. This way seems to save every person involved headache.

- My Paypal claim is nearing the end of its time. If it can be extended another week it will be. If not, once the lip arrives at my house I will send McFab the money. I want to make this point clear. I'm not interested in screwing him. He has something I want that I paid money for. I expect for him to have my money and for me to have the authentic Gears lip when this is all said and done. I do not want to be associated with anything shady or underhanded. I try to be a very responsible and level headed individual. I will make sure McFab get's the amount we agreed on. Even though the lip has to be refinished, even though it's taken this much effort on all the guys who bought the lips and the mods who helped us, even though I'm paying for my shipping again when it was supposed to be included. I'm hoping all of this was a blessing in disguise.

There is so much more to the story, but I don't have the time right now to get into it. Once this is all resolved I'm sure I'll work up a more complete post with pictures and all the documentation of the lip being refinished. Until then I'm praying that everything goes according to plan.

I can't say thank you enough for all the PM's offering information and help, and all the support that has come from people. Specifically Sam_Spider. If it wasn't for that guy I wouldn't be making this post.

Sam, I can't thank you enough.


After I spoke to McFab and made that post .I called Chris back and we spoke for another few hours about all sorts of thing. As was mentioned in a different thread there were inquiries into putting the logo onto the backs of the replicas, just all sorts of crazy shit. At this point I started to realize that basically everything I had been told up to now was a lie. Literally nothing was the truth. Originally things couldn't be shipped because the fabricator was "three hours away" but when I asked Chris though he was only 15 minutes from him. I could go on and on. The ignoring of call, the showing up with a huge bankroll of cash and then going off and buying a car instead of dealing with this situation. It goes on and on. The only hope I had at this point was Chris. He got a text message and a voice mail authorizing him to send the lip to me directly. I would also like to point out and make perfectly clear that I verbally spoke to McFab and told him that I had filed the Paypal claim and he needed to gt on there and to protect himself. I even posted the same thing on the forums, and I'm fairly sure that I sent him a text message stating the same thing. As you can guess that never happened.

So the following weekend my claim was set to expire. I tried my hardest to get the lip in the mail before that happened but it just didn't. As was mentioned earlier there was a considerable amount of damage to the lip due to it being used as a plug for the mold. At the end of it all it took another 3 - 4 week for the lip to finally get into the mail and on its way to me. I received it on Friday afternoon 8/30 after originally sending payment early July.

Once the lip arrived it was in nowhere near the condition that was initially described. I followed up and updated everyone with the following post in McFab's for sales thread:

Update: The authentic lip is in my hands.

Unfortunately it is nowhere near the condition that was promised. So as it sits now I have all of my money back as well as the lip. I said I would pay McFab if the lip got to my house, and I still intend to do so. However, I'm trying to figure out how much now. If this was any other piece I'd send it back and buy a new one but unfortunately I do not have that option.

Here is what we agreed to:

S2KI Conversation:

"Do you need me to Paypal you right now, or can I hold off until you have the lip in hand? Let me know what works for you. With you being a vendor on here and with all the communication we've had back and forth I'm reasonably comfortable sending you the cash.

I just want to make sure, that we have everything outlined. Like I said, I've been burned in the past, and I always try to err on the side of caution when dealing with long distance transactions. So, in summary:

I will be Paypal'ing you $1,000 at W.lewis.inc@gmail.com for the authentic Gears lip. This lip is primered and undamaged. This includes shipping, Paypal feels, tracking number, and insurance. Please package the lip up as securely as possible to ensure that it arrives to my house in one piece. If there is a quicker/more secure shipping option that isn't insanely expensive let me know, it might be something that I can do."

His Reply:

"That's fine. I could be able to ship you the lip out as early as Monday morning. I usually have fed ex or ups pick parts going out from the shop. If you want to get the payment sent now that would be fine, that way were squared away and I can purchase the shipping label and have that out of the way. My name is will and my cell phone number is ********** if you need me. Everything in your summary looks spot on."


Paypal Payment:

"This is Feezy from S2ki. This payment is for the Authentic Gears Lip. This lip is primered and undamaged. This includes shipping, tracking number, and insurance. Please package the lip up as securely as possible. You have my contact info if you need to get ahold of me."


The image I was provided to prove its authenticity:


Original


Here is what showed up:


You can see in this image that the lip is in nowhere near the condition that was promised. Not even remotely close. There is orange paint or something everywhere, not to mention the blue clay like stuff that is stuck in all the corners. It's barely visible in this picture but that mounting hardware is barely holding on in that corner. It's not going to hold anything without some repair work.



Another picture of the terrible condition of the inside of the lip.



The other side. More orange paint. More blue clay. The mounting hardware looks to be in a little bit better shape here, but it's still going to need work.


What's this? It looks like the lip was cracked and needed to be repaired. I'm going to have to assume that this is the crack that the Fab guy mentioned that formed when the lip was used as a plug during the molding process.


Exterior shot of the lip. Crack on the exterior. Horribly caked hardware. So now, in addition to refinishing the lip I get to work on refinishing the mounting brackets too, all while they are attached to the lip. Well that is as long as the brackets don't break off. Remember they are barely holding on as is.


An overall shot of the absolute joke of a condition that the inside of the lip arrived in.


Another shot of one of the exterior blemishes.


The font, tape marks from shipping and other assorted blemishes. The exterior stuff can be dealt with by a body shop. It's not the worst damage, but it's far more than what I paid for.


To my surprise I received a few texts from McFab today informing me that he was aware that I had received the lip and that if I wouldn't mind to send him the payment. I guess his phone works a lot better when he is owed something than it does when he's dodging calls.

Let's also remember that the condition of the lip I received was AFTER I paid the body shop guy to refurbish the exterior mainly the crack. He also re-primed the whole exterior and cleaned up the area surrounding the logo so that I could verify that I had in fact received what I paid for. I also paid him for shipping, which was more than what was expected so I followed up with an additional payment to cover the shipping. All in all I paid the fabrication guy $397. $147 was for shipping, $250 was for refurbishment.

McFab also posted that due to my 'patience' that he could credit me $100.

So the original balance was $1,000 including shipping.
-$147 from shipping.
-$100 for my patience.

Leaves us as $753.

I'm of the opinion that I paid for exactly what was described to me, and I had to throw $250 into the lip so far to just get the damn exterior half way decent. I think it's fairly safe to deduct that value form the amount that McFab receives.

-$250 Refurbishment costs.

$503 Remaining.

At this point I still don't have anything remotely close to what I was promised. I'm going to have to put even more money into have the back of the lip refinished as well. Hell, even if I do it by hand the costs for product still comes out of my pocket.

So what do I do at this point? I try to be a very reasonable person. I was promised one thing and delivered something in entirely different condition than what was agreed upon. I've had to put a considerable amount of my time and money into this transaction already and I'm nowhere close to being done. If I go and pay to have the back refinished and deduct that as well then there will be hardly anything left to send to McFab. I'm not trying to screw the kid, but damn. I feel like if anyone else ended up in this situation they would take the parts and their money and be done with it.

I'm open to suggestions. I'm curious to see what other peoples take on this situation is. At the end of the day I'd like to end this transaction in a way that is satisfactory to both McFab and myself.

So this is where I am now. I have the lip in my hands, but it's in really poor condition. I put 8 hours worth of work into it yesterday and I've barely scratched the surface of what needs to be done. I wanted to tell the story of what i had to go through so that I could relay to everyone how much I truly do love these cars. I felt like if I could get my hands on this lip I could save it, so that there will always be at least one of them floating around. It really sucks that it's in the condition that it is in, but I think it's salvageable. I imagine it's going to take many hours and quite a bit of money to get this thing back into the shape that I was promised it was going to be, but if I can make that happen it's like saving a small piece of S2000 history.

I can't wait to really make some progress and show you all what's been done.