2kturkey

Thank you guys, some very interesting comments there. I think most of you know I had a '00 WRX on order which I cancelled the day I saw an S2000 on the road (Monday after Saturday release in Aug '99) and was driving home my brand new S2000 by the end of that week.

I am still tempted by the WRX, however, but not as a second car as my wife only drives an automatic (and I don;'t want an auto Rex - interestingly enough I taught her to drive in my mildly hotted Commodore VL turbo auto 14 years ago. It can't have been too good an experience for her though as she only got her licence 5 years ago

Sorry for the ramble, back on topic. I am still not sure if the STi is worth it given that many of the STi goodies (such as the 6 speed box) will probably trickle down to the base Rex in a year or so.

Alister, can you tell me, what was your experience with resale value? Did you get back the cost of your mods or did you lose money because noone would buy a modded Rex?

At the end of the day guys my problem is that I still ride bikes. During the time my S2000 was in for repair for 3 weeks (got it back last weekend but still not right) I used my Suzuki Bandit as my excitement machine. The 1200 Bandit is one of the torquiest bikes around and is undisputed wheelie king (it's the bike they use at Formula 1 and Indy for the crowd entertainment and stunt displays). It just has so much go and after climbing off and jumping in the S2000 - well frankly, something seems missing. So I guess you could say I'm a little disappointed in the Stook this week and after 2 and 1/4 years of ownership I'm starting to get itchy feet. Who knows though, after all I still have 22 months to go on my lease

naishou

That did happen with the previous model with the brakes at least, but I don't expect to see those Brembos in the base model any time soon. In 2003 we may get the 6 speed and possibly variable valve timing, but I doubt it even then. Now that they sell them as a 5 speed in the US market they have good economies of scale for producing the cheaper 5 speed. There's also the matter of completely different suspension and drivetrain. That stuff is not cheap. Also don't forget that the STi engine has internals that will safely run 17PSI up to 8000rpm, plus a turbo that can deliver that much air. The standard engine runs out of puff at 7000rpm and boost is already down from a peak of just over 14psi. You could get 250kW safely from the STi with very minor mods (basically just the engine management) and running on 98 octane fuel. I wouldn't want to push the standard engine that far and the driveline wouldn't handle it if you did. When you add up the price of all the bits the STi now has, there is no way you could put them on a base model for less money - even if they were cheaper aftermarket parts. When you factor resale and insurance in there's no contest.

Alister

I definitely think that resale on WRXs is good. Most seem to have at least slight modifications (typically exhaust, filter), so people aren't usually too put off about mods. My problem was that I had $20k worth of modifications done to my WRX, which meant that I was definitely going to take a hit on the extras. I was tempted to take out my Alpine stereo (included TV and cost almost $9k all up), but knew that I could not accomodate it in the S2000 so figured I may as well let the new owner enjoy it rather than trying to sell it off bit by bit... In my case it came down to trying to find the right buyer for the car, as not everyone would appreciate (and value) the modifications. I think I was actually lucky because it didn't take me that long to sell the WRX. In the end a 20 year old guy bought it...

Aus2k

Just a little off topic here,

How would you guys rate an STi to an EVO VI??

DavidM

EVO6 vs Sti? I'll be contravertial and give the win unconditionally to the EVO6. I'd almost put the two cars in different leagues. I know that you can read 100 write-ups that compare them and tell you how close the two cars are even though the EVO6 is the 'slightly' better perfromance vehicle.

Reason I'd put the EVO6 way above the STi is because of what I see in GTP. I'm a big follower of the series and EVOs are the cars to beat. STis are close but always the underdogs .... probably after the GTS HSVs. That's not all, in GTP the EVO6 runs stock weight, stock boost as well as mostly stock hardware (shocks/springs/tyres are custom though on all cars). On the other hand the STis are about 150kg lighter than stock, run 1.2bar boost instead of stock 1.0bar as well as often have custom gear-box. And even after all these mods designed to close the performance, the EVO6 is still the car always on pole and running in top 3.

Though, if you start asking which is a better road car then it comes down more to your prefferences and the Sti is more 'civilized'.

Col

Something else that wasn't mentioned with the STIs was that the first ones that came here were very much the Japanese models and they were tuned for the higher octane premium available there. In cases where the STIs here were pushed hard for extended periods (track or fast mountain) under boost they used to get all sorts of long term troubles which happened in the short term!!!! Subaru denied any responsibility but there were some unpublicised warranty fixes that occurred. The latest STIs (since the first 4 doors) now are tuned for our premium.

It's funny but at the time I wondered why there were these problems for the STIs, considering the number of modified standard WRXs, but I never thought about or read much on the topic.

naishou

Stock boost in an STi is 17PSI (1.2 bar). Stock boost in a normal WRX is just over 14PSI (1.0 bar). The new STi will run 18PSI out of the factory.

Don't know why the Evo is faster in GTP, maybe the front mount intercooler has something to do with it. The point is an Evo VI is out of date and costs 80k and an STi is 55k. You really need to compare with an Evo VII and you can't get them here yet. They are very similar platforms. On the road you're not subject to the GTP rules, so you can spend a bit of money and the Evo can say "where did he go?".

Takashi KazuMori

The price itself is already not a good price comparison. Besides, both cars perform quite accordingly. Though I must mention, a stock Evo 6 Type RS is definitely faster than a stock WRX STi Version 6 Type RA Coupe. Nevertheless, when both are modified they still run quite similar times. It's more like a choice preference in Japan. Since there is no crazy price hike like down under for something that is definitely not worth that much. Don't forget, it's still a Lancer at the end of the day.

DavidM

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Stock boost in an STi is 17PSI (1.2 bar). Stock boost in a normal WRX is just over 14PSI (1.0 bar). The new STi will run 18PSI out of the factory.
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You're probably correct ... though the GTP STi has 2 bar more boost than stock, I just wasn't sure aboutt he exact numbers.

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Don't know why the Evo is faster in GTP, maybe the front mount intercooler has something to do with it.
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Yeah, it does - when'running on the track the Turbos have prblems with overheating when posh for polonged persiods of time. So while the EVO stays on power, the STi's start delivering a lot less then expected (hence the boost increase). Also, a lot of the hardware on the EVO is more 'race bread'. The EVOs responds better to being pushed hard. So in terms of 'perfromance' there seems to be a gap between the STi and EVO6 ... on the road I'm sure they're very comparable though. btw, this is what the GTP guys told me when I asked the same quiestion.

Also, they do have one new STi in GTP now, but it is not running well yet (they are preparing it for next season). Not sure what 'parities' they appied to it but will let you know when it's running properly.

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The point is an Evo VI is out of date and costs 80k and an STi is 55k.
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Yeah, if price is an issue then why compare the two cars and just buy what you can afford. If like saying that you can't compare the 911GT3 (or Turbo) and F360 because the Ferrari costs 2x the Porsche. Not the case, they have very similar performance so they are comparable. As far as 'shopping' goes, you buy what you can afford :-)

Also, from what I gather, the EVO6 is a better 'performance' machine than EVO7. I know that I'm take the EVO6 over7 anyday ... EVO6 is much more 'performance' (or race) focused.

naishou

You'd have to be either a manic Evo fan or a lunatic to buy a Lancer when the price difference is so great. The fact that I can afford a Lancer Evo if I want one does not cause my IQ to drop 50 points. It's the same reason I don't buy a BMW, Porsche, Ferrari or any other such over-marketed exotica. I guess I can't get away from my engineer's way of thinking

I think the front mount intercooler and more sophisticated drivetrain, plus much bigger brakes might be what makes the Evo quicker in GTP. The thing is that the new STi has comparable brakes and now has excellent front and rear LSDs. It also has a 6-speed gearbox to the Evo's 5. Most people who want a bit more power reliably end up putting a front mount intercooler on their WRX anyway. Let's see, FMIC and UniChip on your STi and you can make (conservatively) 230kW reliably and all day. Since you can't even get an Evo VII and if you could it would be over 80k there really isn't any comparison. The only people who would not opt for the STi are die hard Mitsubishi fans. It wouldn't be a decision made with the head.