S2000 VS Elise 111S VS Z3 3.0 VS Boxster
10-29-2002, 09:55 PM
#11
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jcl
[B]
I was seriously thinking about getting a second hand car...
ONLY thing is.. the '02 model comes with a glass rear window. From lots of websites/forums I've read, apparently the plastic one in the previous models can be pretty shocking... not sure if I read it here, but one guy said every time he put his roof down, he had to get out of the car and poke it to fold correctly.
[B]
I was seriously thinking about getting a second hand car...
ONLY thing is.. the '02 model comes with a glass rear window. From lots of websites/forums I've read, apparently the plastic one in the previous models can be pretty shocking... not sure if I read it here, but one guy said every time he put his roof down, he had to get out of the car and poke it to fold correctly.
10-29-2002, 10:26 PM
#12
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by jcl
[B]
I was seriously thinking about getting a second hand car...
ONLY thing is.. the '02 model comes with a glass rear window. From lots of websites/forums I've read, apparently the plastic one in the previous models can be pretty shocking... not sure if I read it here, but one guy said every time he put his roof down, he had to get out of the car and poke it to fold correctly.
[B]
I was seriously thinking about getting a second hand car...
ONLY thing is.. the '02 model comes with a glass rear window. From lots of websites/forums I've read, apparently the plastic one in the previous models can be pretty shocking... not sure if I read it here, but one guy said every time he put his roof down, he had to get out of the car and poke it to fold correctly.
10-29-2002, 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by DavidM
JCL, most of the cars you're looking at have been covered in one thread or another ... here's some of them and maybe of some help to you:
Here's an S2000 vs Elise (and Exige to a degree) disscusion :
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=79072
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=32520
Here's S2000 vs STi disscusion :
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=68971
Some S2000 vs Z3 3.0 (moslty coupe) bits:
--------------------------------------------------------
It's not a Z3 '3.0' but a "Z3 COUPE 3.0" ... you know, like an M-Coupe but with a 3.0l engine,. In the straighline it returns numbers very similar to the S2000 but it has 300Nm of torque so it has a much better low down pull. The "coupe" always handles better than the "convertible" - just look at the M-Roaster and M-Coupe lap time difference. This uses the same body.
Also, there's only 0.5sec difference so that's not that significant when you concider that they were tested on two different days ... it was also 5secs quicker than the S2000 at the Nurburgring (again different time/conditions). Either way, there wouldn't be much bettween them.
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I'm having a hard time finding the S2000 vs Boxster (2.5, 2.7 as well as S) referrences. I have driven them all but can't find the references. I'll write more some of my impressions/findings here if you don't find anything ... let me know.
ps. The Z3 3.0 0-60mph time is roughly the same as the S2000's (ie. mid 5s) and to 100mph it is a tad slower (and get's even slower after that).
Also where did you get the Elise 111 and Boxster 2.7 0-100mph numbers as they seem quicker then what I'm used to seeing ... off by about 1sec to what I'm used to.
JCL, most of the cars you're looking at have been covered in one thread or another ... here's some of them and maybe of some help to you:
Here's an S2000 vs Elise (and Exige to a degree) disscusion :
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=79072
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=32520
Here's S2000 vs STi disscusion :
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=68971
Some S2000 vs Z3 3.0 (moslty coupe) bits:
--------------------------------------------------------
It's not a Z3 '3.0' but a "Z3 COUPE 3.0" ... you know, like an M-Coupe but with a 3.0l engine,. In the straighline it returns numbers very similar to the S2000 but it has 300Nm of torque so it has a much better low down pull. The "coupe" always handles better than the "convertible" - just look at the M-Roaster and M-Coupe lap time difference. This uses the same body.
Also, there's only 0.5sec difference so that's not that significant when you concider that they were tested on two different days ... it was also 5secs quicker than the S2000 at the Nurburgring (again different time/conditions). Either way, there wouldn't be much bettween them.
--------------------------------------------------------
I'm having a hard time finding the S2000 vs Boxster (2.5, 2.7 as well as S) referrences. I have driven them all but can't find the references. I'll write more some of my impressions/findings here if you don't find anything ... let me know.
ps. The Z3 3.0 0-60mph time is roughly the same as the S2000's (ie. mid 5s) and to 100mph it is a tad slower (and get's even slower after that).
Also where did you get the Elise 111 and Boxster 2.7 0-100mph numbers as they seem quicker then what I'm used to seeing ... off by about 1sec to what I'm used to.
I've now read all the links you provided. Seems that to get good 0-100km/h performance from the S2000 you almost have to fry the clutch and transmission, while in the Elise you don't need to (to get the same/similar performance).
Is there any way to make the S2K do 0-100km/h without too much dramas and without adding 5K?
10-30-2002, 03:58 AM
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Seems that to get good 0-100km/h performance from the S2000 you almost have to fry the clutch and transmission, while in the Elise you don't need to (to get the same/similar performance).
No that's not right. You drop the clutch 2,000 rpm bellow redline in the Elise and as well as in the S2000 in order to extract a good 0-100kph time. The difference is that 2,000rpm under redline in the Elise is 5,000rpm and in the S2000 it's 7,000rpm. Both take the same stress/punishement. Though, Elise's light weight will make things easier on the car. If anything droppin the clutch from 9,000rpm will be less stressfull on the car than dropping it from 4,000rpm as the 4,000rpm drop stands a chance of the wheels not slipping and hence the drivetrain needing to do all the 'absorbing'.
Also, dropping the clutch from 7,000rpm does not fry the transmition or the cluth. I have not had the clutch slip once even when doing repeated clutch drops. The tyres end up just spinning like crazy and absorb most of the punnishement. Though the drivetrain needs to absorb some of it at the start .... that is no different in any car if you drop the clutch from higher revs. The stress is the same being dropped from 5,000rpm or 9,000rpm as it always absorbs all the stress untill the tyres brake loose. Even the 911 needs to have the clutch dropped from 6,000rpm in order to get the times you see printed.
Though, the Elise has the lightness going for it and hence needs less power (ie. stress) to spin the wheels. Then again, I don't know how strong the parts are in there compared to the S2000.
Is there any way to make the S2K do 0-100km/h without too much dramas and without adding 5K? [/b]
Even with adding $5k you will not change the way the S2000 needs to be launched. There's no known mod that will add bottom end power - which is what you need to do 'dramaless' launches and still be quick 0-100kph. All the enhancements really just add top end power.
If you want to do effortlessly quick 'launch' times then you need torque (or drastically reduce the weight). For that only the Z3 3.0 fits the bill on your list. Boxster 2.7L has only a fraction more pull at lower revs and needs to be launched from 5,000 - 6,000rpm. Same goes for the Elise.
btw, if you take off-idle (ie. let the clutch out smoothly from low revs) in the S2000, you can still return times as quick as 7.5secs for the 0-100kph sprint. We have timed it ourselves and that is not as slow as you'd think. The Boxtser 2.7L launched off idle will not do it any quicker and neither will the Elise (Elise will strugle to get close to 8secs).
ps. If you take the S2000 to redline often then you will need a new clutch at around 30,000km no matter how you launch it.
pps. You mentioned Exige as a car on your shopping list ... you do realize that Exige costs here almost 2x as much as the S2000?
No that's not right. You drop the clutch 2,000 rpm bellow redline in the Elise and as well as in the S2000 in order to extract a good 0-100kph time. The difference is that 2,000rpm under redline in the Elise is 5,000rpm and in the S2000 it's 7,000rpm. Both take the same stress/punishement. Though, Elise's light weight will make things easier on the car. If anything droppin the clutch from 9,000rpm will be less stressfull on the car than dropping it from 4,000rpm as the 4,000rpm drop stands a chance of the wheels not slipping and hence the drivetrain needing to do all the 'absorbing'.
Also, dropping the clutch from 7,000rpm does not fry the transmition or the cluth. I have not had the clutch slip once even when doing repeated clutch drops. The tyres end up just spinning like crazy and absorb most of the punnishement. Though the drivetrain needs to absorb some of it at the start .... that is no different in any car if you drop the clutch from higher revs. The stress is the same being dropped from 5,000rpm or 9,000rpm as it always absorbs all the stress untill the tyres brake loose. Even the 911 needs to have the clutch dropped from 6,000rpm in order to get the times you see printed.
Though, the Elise has the lightness going for it and hence needs less power (ie. stress) to spin the wheels. Then again, I don't know how strong the parts are in there compared to the S2000.
Is there any way to make the S2K do 0-100km/h without too much dramas and without adding 5K? [/b]
Even with adding $5k you will not change the way the S2000 needs to be launched. There's no known mod that will add bottom end power - which is what you need to do 'dramaless' launches and still be quick 0-100kph. All the enhancements really just add top end power.
If you want to do effortlessly quick 'launch' times then you need torque (or drastically reduce the weight). For that only the Z3 3.0 fits the bill on your list. Boxster 2.7L has only a fraction more pull at lower revs and needs to be launched from 5,000 - 6,000rpm. Same goes for the Elise.
btw, if you take off-idle (ie. let the clutch out smoothly from low revs) in the S2000, you can still return times as quick as 7.5secs for the 0-100kph sprint. We have timed it ourselves and that is not as slow as you'd think. The Boxtser 2.7L launched off idle will not do it any quicker and neither will the Elise (Elise will strugle to get close to 8secs).
ps. If you take the S2000 to redline often then you will need a new clutch at around 30,000km no matter how you launch it.
pps. You mentioned Exige as a car on your shopping list ... you do realize that Exige costs here almost 2x as much as the S2000?
10-30-2002, 03:48 PM
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I would question the validity of a poll taken in the circumstances of this forum. Those with a positive slant are less likely to participate and therefore the results are swayed to the negative - If you have a gripe you will yell from the rooftops, everyone else just gets on with life.
I would suggest you contact the relevant personnel at the HSCC's of a couple of states and ask for a fair evaluation of their members. Yes, there have been some minor issues with the car but no more and probably no less than any other make. Engine failure is not a common problem and dhess may have a valid claim but certainly do not be put off by the remarks of a minority (less than one percent).
As for the plastic window issue - you wont even notice. The only time the roof will be up is when parked or in the rain - either way, you cant/wont be looking out of there. 3 years and 3 months and I still love it.
I would suggest you contact the relevant personnel at the HSCC's of a couple of states and ask for a fair evaluation of their members. Yes, there have been some minor issues with the car but no more and probably no less than any other make. Engine failure is not a common problem and dhess may have a valid claim but certainly do not be put off by the remarks of a minority (less than one percent).
As for the plastic window issue - you wont even notice. The only time the roof will be up is when parked or in the rain - either way, you cant/wont be looking out of there. 3 years and 3 months and I still love it.
10-30-2002, 05:07 PM
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DavidM - I disagree re ur comment that a new clutch would be required no matter how you launch it if you redline often - As long as you are double clutching all downshifts, wear should be greatly minimised.
JSL- I am not sure if you read my report on the elise fully - however, I do feel that the elise will give consistent quick 0-100 times - HOWEVER - that is due to its light weight - in fact from about 70-100 its not that quick -
I suggest that you go and drive them all - hard - you will come to your own conclusion quite easily
JSL- I am not sure if you read my report on the elise fully - however, I do feel that the elise will give consistent quick 0-100 times - HOWEVER - that is due to its light weight - in fact from about 70-100 its not that quick -
I suggest that you go and drive them all - hard - you will come to your own conclusion quite easily
10-30-2002, 06:14 PM
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I would question the validity of a poll taken in the circumstances of this forum. Those with a positive slant are less likely to participate and therefore the results are swayed to the negative - If you have a gripe you will yell from the rooftops, everyone else just gets on with life.
Another point to consider is that many of the satisfied respondants have not had the pleasure of dealing with our friends at HA.
10-30-2002, 06:27 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by jcl
[B]
I was seriously thinking about getting a second hand car...
ONLY thing is.. the '02 model comes with a glass rear window. From lots of websites/forums I've read, apparently the plastic one in the previous models can be pretty shocking... not sure if I read it here, but one guy said every time he put his roof down, he had to get out of the car and poke it to fold correctly.
[B]
I was seriously thinking about getting a second hand car...
ONLY thing is.. the '02 model comes with a glass rear window. From lots of websites/forums I've read, apparently the plastic one in the previous models can be pretty shocking... not sure if I read it here, but one guy said every time he put his roof down, he had to get out of the car and poke it to fold correctly.