View Poll Results: Bulk buy road/semi-race tyres - dealer presentations
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Bulk buy road/semi-race tyres - dealer presentations
11-14-2002, 10:46 PM
#21
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The front tyres are half an inch wider than the OEM SO2, and the rears are half an inch narrower. This gives the car much better balance IMO; it is more a match with the 50:50 weight distribution of the car.
Are you saying that by addingh more rubber to the front and removing some rubber rom the back the 'balance' improved? I'm not sure how your S2000 handles but mine can always use MORE grip at the back ... not less. My whole 'holy-grail' with the S2000 has been to improve the grip at the back of the car (and maybe remove some from the ront ... if I need to in order to achiece this).
Also, I'm not sure what you have against the S02s ... as from my experience it is the best road tyre on any 'sports' car that money can buy. Be it TVR, MR2, HSV or the S2000. I don't know all the tyres in your list first hand but I do some and even though some of them are great on a 1600+kg cars, they are not as good as the S02s on a sportscar that weights less then 1400kg.
Yokohama A539
These are very average tyres ... they migh be good for cars like Corola and Covic but they're certainly not a 'perfromance' tyre of the caliber of the S02 or P-Zero.
Pirelli P Zero - directional front & asymmetric rears
These are ment to be good but Brock was not as happy with them as his S02s on his S2000 ... though, Brock can clarify this as I could have got it wrong.
Bridgestone S03
Thse are I would say bottom of the range perfromance tyre. My father has them now on his HSV (he had S02s) before and they wear quicker and don't offer the same ultimate grip. I would probably rather get something like the RE040 than the S03s from the Bridgestone catalog if I could not chose the S02s. RE040 come factory fitted on the NSX, 350Z, GTR, A3, A6, TT and Z8.
Michelin Pilot sport
This is an excellent tyre for a 1500kg+ sedan but not a tyre for a light sportscar. It comes as a factory tyre on cars like M3, AMG Mers, Jags and a fair few perfromance sedans. It looks like this tyre was designed with weight in mind and is suited to heavy cars.
Me I would only look at Conti Sport 2 or P-Zero as an alternative road tyre to the S02s as they seem to be the tyres that manufactures like Ferrari and Porsche factory fit (ie. with ultimate perfromance in mind). Though a lot of them still fit S02s as factory equiplment ... the new Ferrari 575 comes to mind. S02s were factory equiplemt on Boxster, 911 GT3, TVR, XJ220 and some Ferraries just to make a few from the top of my head. These cars with the best perfromance tyres that money could buy and S02 was it.
Are you saying that by addingh more rubber to the front and removing some rubber rom the back the 'balance' improved? I'm not sure how your S2000 handles but mine can always use MORE grip at the back ... not less. My whole 'holy-grail' with the S2000 has been to improve the grip at the back of the car (and maybe remove some from the ront ... if I need to in order to achiece this).
Also, I'm not sure what you have against the S02s ... as from my experience it is the best road tyre on any 'sports' car that money can buy. Be it TVR, MR2, HSV or the S2000. I don't know all the tyres in your list first hand but I do some and even though some of them are great on a 1600+kg cars, they are not as good as the S02s on a sportscar that weights less then 1400kg.
Yokohama A539
These are very average tyres ... they migh be good for cars like Corola and Covic but they're certainly not a 'perfromance' tyre of the caliber of the S02 or P-Zero.
Pirelli P Zero - directional front & asymmetric rears
These are ment to be good but Brock was not as happy with them as his S02s on his S2000 ... though, Brock can clarify this as I could have got it wrong.
Bridgestone S03
Thse are I would say bottom of the range perfromance tyre. My father has them now on his HSV (he had S02s) before and they wear quicker and don't offer the same ultimate grip. I would probably rather get something like the RE040 than the S03s from the Bridgestone catalog if I could not chose the S02s. RE040 come factory fitted on the NSX, 350Z, GTR, A3, A6, TT and Z8.
Michelin Pilot sport
This is an excellent tyre for a 1500kg+ sedan but not a tyre for a light sportscar. It comes as a factory tyre on cars like M3, AMG Mers, Jags and a fair few perfromance sedans. It looks like this tyre was designed with weight in mind and is suited to heavy cars.
Me I would only look at Conti Sport 2 or P-Zero as an alternative road tyre to the S02s as they seem to be the tyres that manufactures like Ferrari and Porsche factory fit (ie. with ultimate perfromance in mind). Though a lot of them still fit S02s as factory equiplment ... the new Ferrari 575 comes to mind. S02s were factory equiplemt on Boxster, 911 GT3, TVR, XJ220 and some Ferraries just to make a few from the top of my head. These cars with the best perfromance tyres that money could buy and S02 was it.
11-14-2002, 11:34 PM
#22
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidM
[B]The front tyres are half an inch wider than the OEM SO2, and the rears are half an inch narrower. This gives the car much better balance IMO; it is more a match with the 50:50 weight distribution of the car.
Are you saying that by addingh more rubber to the front and removing some rubber rom the back the 'balance' improved? I'm not sure how your S2000 handles but mine can always use MORE grip at the back ... not less. My whole 'holy-grail' with the S2000 has been to improve the grip at the back of the car (and maybe remove some from the ront ... if I need to in order to achiece this).[
Also, I'm not sure what you have against the S02s ... as from my experience it is the best road tyre on any 'sports' car that money can buy.
Hi David,
Yes, I am saying that by adding more rubber to the front and less to the back it improves the balance of the car IMO.
With the 50:50 weight distribution, I theorised that with OEM "narrower" tyres on the front and wider tyres on the back,( particularly if you consider the increased potential for side wall flex on a 245 section tyre on a 7.5 inch rim instead of the recommended 8 - 8.5 inch rim) this would introduce a pendulum effect on the car about its centre of mass/axis. This, for me , was very obvious in the wet - it exacerbated the effect of the narrow, shallow groves in the rears.
In the dry, I used to get quite a bit of turn-in understeer, but little oversteer, with the SO2s. With my current tyres, I have better initial brake bite and feel, and less understeer. I have never had an issue with oversteer.
I think a lot of the points of this discussion center around driving styles - I have had a lot of track experience and developed my style along the classic lines of late braking and high corner speed with progressive power on exit.
The speed I carry through & out of corners, along with progressive throttle application negates power oversteer for me.
I would like to stress that this is my style and what suits me - I acknowledge that everyone is different, and what suits me may not suit you.
Your comments on some of the other tyres I mentioned I agree with - I was listing possible alternatives to the OEM tyres, and again, it is up to the individual to choose tyres that suit the styles/wants.
Cheers,
Mark
[B]The front tyres are half an inch wider than the OEM SO2, and the rears are half an inch narrower. This gives the car much better balance IMO; it is more a match with the 50:50 weight distribution of the car.
Are you saying that by addingh more rubber to the front and removing some rubber rom the back the 'balance' improved? I'm not sure how your S2000 handles but mine can always use MORE grip at the back ... not less. My whole 'holy-grail' with the S2000 has been to improve the grip at the back of the car (and maybe remove some from the ront ... if I need to in order to achiece this).[
Also, I'm not sure what you have against the S02s ... as from my experience it is the best road tyre on any 'sports' car that money can buy.
Hi David,
Yes, I am saying that by adding more rubber to the front and less to the back it improves the balance of the car IMO.
With the 50:50 weight distribution, I theorised that with OEM "narrower" tyres on the front and wider tyres on the back,( particularly if you consider the increased potential for side wall flex on a 245 section tyre on a 7.5 inch rim instead of the recommended 8 - 8.5 inch rim) this would introduce a pendulum effect on the car about its centre of mass/axis. This, for me , was very obvious in the wet - it exacerbated the effect of the narrow, shallow groves in the rears.
In the dry, I used to get quite a bit of turn-in understeer, but little oversteer, with the SO2s. With my current tyres, I have better initial brake bite and feel, and less understeer. I have never had an issue with oversteer.
I think a lot of the points of this discussion center around driving styles - I have had a lot of track experience and developed my style along the classic lines of late braking and high corner speed with progressive power on exit.
The speed I carry through & out of corners, along with progressive throttle application negates power oversteer for me.
I would like to stress that this is my style and what suits me - I acknowledge that everyone is different, and what suits me may not suit you.
Your comments on some of the other tyres I mentioned I agree with - I was listing possible alternatives to the OEM tyres, and again, it is up to the individual to choose tyres that suit the styles/wants.
Cheers,
Mark
11-15-2002, 05:30 AM
#23
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In the dry, I used to get quite a bit of turn-in understeer, but little oversteer, with the SO2s. With my current tyres, I have better initial brake bite and feel, and less understeer. I have never had an issue with oversteer.
Odd, I have never had issue with understeer in the S2000... it's incredibly hard for me to get understeer in my car.
I think a lot of the points of this discussion center around driving styles - I have had a lot of track experience and developed my style along the classic lines of late braking and high corner speed with progressive power on exit.
The speed I carry through & out of corners, along with progressive throttle application negates power oversteer for me.
I would like to stress that this is my style and what suits me - I acknowledge that everyone is different, and what suits me may not suit you.
I'm sure that it has a lot to do with the drivingstyle but just reading it, your driving style sounds exaclty like mine ... I have now completed at least 10 HP driving courses so I'd think (and hope) that I'm not doing it too wrong. Also an instructor driving my car was ultimatelly limited by oversteer at Winton ... not on the exit but on turn in (or mid corner). From what I've seen of S2000's (not just mine), they all will ultimatelly start oversteering when you try to carry enoug speed through a corner ... and I don't mean throttle induced (or brake/lift-off induced). You enter a corner fast enough and no matter how smooth (or neutral) you are with the throttle, the back will drift out. I would love to be taken for a ride in yours and experience understeer ... maybe you can take me for a ride next time we're at the track?
What I described above only happens when you take it to the (or close to) the cornering limit and even then it was controllable and very progressive. Though, I've spent last two years balancing the pressures, tyres and allignment to change the balance more towards my liking ... that is bit more rear grip and bit less in the front. From my last visit at Winton I might have achieved that (or got close to it) .... will see for sure once I cut another second of my lap time.
Your comments on some of the other tyres I mentioned I agree with - I was listing possible alternatives to the OEM tyres, and again, it is up to the individual to choose tyres that suit the styles/wants.
Couple more comments regading tyres:
- OEM S02s for the S2000 are still avaliable and there is no hint of them being discontinued.
- Another tyre worth mentioning (or looking at) is' BF-Goodrich Profile G' ... it has done very well in the tyre tests I've seen and also a friend of mine has them on his S15 200SX. He's impressed with the grip but complains about the noise (though noise is almost irrelevant to me).
- Yet another tyre worth looking at is the Goodyear Eagle GS-D3 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...=Eagle+F1+GS-D3). It was recently tested in Top Gear magazine and won. It was compared to such tyres as S03s and Pilot Sports (among others) and was on a Focus RS in tyre size comparable to the S2000. Though, I have not had any experience with them.
Odd, I have never had issue with understeer in the S2000... it's incredibly hard for me to get understeer in my car.
I think a lot of the points of this discussion center around driving styles - I have had a lot of track experience and developed my style along the classic lines of late braking and high corner speed with progressive power on exit.
The speed I carry through & out of corners, along with progressive throttle application negates power oversteer for me.
I would like to stress that this is my style and what suits me - I acknowledge that everyone is different, and what suits me may not suit you.
I'm sure that it has a lot to do with the drivingstyle but just reading it, your driving style sounds exaclty like mine ... I have now completed at least 10 HP driving courses so I'd think (and hope) that I'm not doing it too wrong. Also an instructor driving my car was ultimatelly limited by oversteer at Winton ... not on the exit but on turn in (or mid corner). From what I've seen of S2000's (not just mine), they all will ultimatelly start oversteering when you try to carry enoug speed through a corner ... and I don't mean throttle induced (or brake/lift-off induced). You enter a corner fast enough and no matter how smooth (or neutral) you are with the throttle, the back will drift out. I would love to be taken for a ride in yours and experience understeer ... maybe you can take me for a ride next time we're at the track?
What I described above only happens when you take it to the (or close to) the cornering limit and even then it was controllable and very progressive. Though, I've spent last two years balancing the pressures, tyres and allignment to change the balance more towards my liking ... that is bit more rear grip and bit less in the front. From my last visit at Winton I might have achieved that (or got close to it) .... will see for sure once I cut another second of my lap time.
Your comments on some of the other tyres I mentioned I agree with - I was listing possible alternatives to the OEM tyres, and again, it is up to the individual to choose tyres that suit the styles/wants.
Couple more comments regading tyres:
- OEM S02s for the S2000 are still avaliable and there is no hint of them being discontinued.
- Another tyre worth mentioning (or looking at) is' BF-Goodrich Profile G' ... it has done very well in the tyre tests I've seen and also a friend of mine has them on his S15 200SX. He's impressed with the grip but complains about the noise (though noise is almost irrelevant to me).
- Yet another tyre worth looking at is the Goodyear Eagle GS-D3 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...=Eagle+F1+GS-D3). It was recently tested in Top Gear magazine and won. It was compared to such tyres as S03s and Pilot Sports (among others) and was on a Focus RS in tyre size comparable to the S2000. Though, I have not had any experience with them.
11-15-2002, 12:17 PM
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mbelkin have you had your wheel alignment done/checked? You may have too much toe in at the rear? Like you I don't find the S2000 to be a power oversteerer (rather it understeers under power) those I have driven are susceptible to mid corner oversteer on weight transitions, camber change etc and are very neutral most of the time. Naturally any car will understeer if you point it at the corner fast enough and if you're driving at the limit you ought to get initial understeer on turn in no matter what the car. However in my experience the car has a tendency to wag the tail once it takes a "set". In AusS2000's videos from Wakefield Park there's an example of this on every lap with me driving when we come down the hill. This corner is taken with a mild throttle lift on entry and then reapplication. The back of the car steps out every time while under power near or just after the apex of the corner. On other corners I've had oversteer nearer the exit, but it's never power oversteer as such - it's due to the inherent balance of the car under weight transition and suspension travel.
This car is very sensitive to rear toe in settings.....
This car is very sensitive to rear toe in settings.....
11-15-2002, 12:50 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidM
[B]In the dry, I used to get quite a bit of turn-in understeer, but little oversteer, with the SO2s. With my current tyres, I have better initial brake bite and feel, and less understeer. I have never had an issue with oversteer.
Odd, I have never had issue with understeer in the S2000... it's incredibly hard for me to get understeer in my car.
David,
I would be more than happy to get together at Winton or wherever on this.
Cheers,
Mark
[B]In the dry, I used to get quite a bit of turn-in understeer, but little oversteer, with the SO2s. With my current tyres, I have better initial brake bite and feel, and less understeer. I have never had an issue with oversteer.
Odd, I have never had issue with understeer in the S2000... it's incredibly hard for me to get understeer in my car.
David,
I would be more than happy to get together at Winton or wherever on this.
Cheers,
Mark
11-15-2002, 03:10 PM
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I would be more than happy to get together at Winton or wherever on this.
Cool, looking forward to this. btw, Naishou described the oversteering-tendency pretty well above. I should have mentioned that power oversteer is never the issue for me as I rarelly get it ... I have to try pretty hard on the track to get the back out on exit. It is always just after entry close to the apex ... though, at my last visit at Winton I did not have any of that behaviour (either because I 'fixed' it or just wasn't going quick enough).
One more thing this 'oversteer-behaviour' is very obvious on the 1st out lap of the pits (ie. when your tyres are cold) so that is usually the 'characteristic' on the road as your tyres are cold most of the time (at least 'cold' by race-track standards).
Last of all, let me say that even when this trait was prominant, the car was still neautral most of the time ... it was mostly on/in the 1st two corners at Winton and last two before the main straight. The instructor could drive with the car doing it in every corner and carrying 5 - 10kph more speed at the apex than me.
Cool, looking forward to this. btw, Naishou described the oversteering-tendency pretty well above. I should have mentioned that power oversteer is never the issue for me as I rarelly get it ... I have to try pretty hard on the track to get the back out on exit. It is always just after entry close to the apex ... though, at my last visit at Winton I did not have any of that behaviour (either because I 'fixed' it or just wasn't going quick enough).
One more thing this 'oversteer-behaviour' is very obvious on the 1st out lap of the pits (ie. when your tyres are cold) so that is usually the 'characteristic' on the road as your tyres are cold most of the time (at least 'cold' by race-track standards).
Last of all, let me say that even when this trait was prominant, the car was still neautral most of the time ... it was mostly on/in the 1st two corners at Winton and last two before the main straight. The instructor could drive with the car doing it in every corner and carrying 5 - 10kph more speed at the apex than me.
11-15-2002, 05:57 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidM
[B]I would be more than happy to get together at Winton or wherever on this.
Cool, looking forward to this. btw, Naishou described the oversteering-tendency pretty well above. I should have mentioned that power oversteer is never the issue for me as I rarelly get it ... I have to try pretty hard on the track to get the back out on exit. It is always just after entry close to the apex ... though, at my last visit at Winton I did not have any of that behaviour (either because I 'fixed' it or just wasn't going quick enough).
Hi David,
I took Dan Price for about 8 laps at Winton - he was interested in the difference in tyres as you are.
Perhaps, Dan, you might like to post some comments re that.
Cheers,
Mark
[B]I would be more than happy to get together at Winton or wherever on this.
Cool, looking forward to this. btw, Naishou described the oversteering-tendency pretty well above. I should have mentioned that power oversteer is never the issue for me as I rarelly get it ... I have to try pretty hard on the track to get the back out on exit. It is always just after entry close to the apex ... though, at my last visit at Winton I did not have any of that behaviour (either because I 'fixed' it or just wasn't going quick enough).
Hi David,
I took Dan Price for about 8 laps at Winton - he was interested in the difference in tyres as you are.
Perhaps, Dan, you might like to post some comments re that.
Cheers,
Mark
11-15-2002, 10:18 PM
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Like DavidM I find the car oversteers more on cold tyres (lower pressure maybe?) I've had near spins at seven tenths of full speed in the first corner but after a few laps all is well. Actually my WRX does this too on cold tyres, even the RE540S.
11-17-2002, 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by mbelkin
Could people register their interest in me organising for the reps from Toyo, Yokohama etc giving the club a presentation on road and semi-race tyres, and us trying to get a "bulk"deal.
Could people register their interest in me organising for the reps from Toyo, Yokohama etc giving the club a presentation on road and semi-race tyres, and us trying to get a "bulk"deal.
There is obviously the interest out there - so I will now start organising the tyre Co's to present their wares (road & semi-race tyres) to us - will probably happen early in the new year.
We intend to include interstate owners as well in whatever deals we can strike.