smccurry

[QUOTE]Originally posted by naishou
[B]So am I suggesting we disarm?

wdavis

[QUOTE]Originally posted by naishou
[B]Tonight I watched an Islamic extremist interviewed on television.

AusS2000

[QUOTE]Originally posted by naishou
[B]"Right concept, wrong species".

AusS2000

I've heard White Supremacists quote a line from the bible about how black people are evil as justification for their beliefs. Not being a big fan of either book I won't defend them.

That said, be careful not to over generalise. The enemy is not 'Muslims' but 'Muslim Fundamentalists' in the same way that not all Christians are Klu Klux Klan members.

MyBad

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dhess
[B]

naishou

You didn't read what I said. You think it's no reason. They don't. As far as they are concerned the USA and now us by association is involved in a constant assault on Islam. I'm not saying I'm agreeing with them but to imagine anyone would do such a thing for "no reason" or that they are doing it just because the victims are non-muslim is ludicrous.

AusS2000

Remember the guy at school who would hit you in the back, and then when you chased after him he ran around the corner where his big brother and cousins were waiting and say you were picking on him?

That's how I see OBL and other islamic terrorists. They strike innocent people in a cowardly fashion and without the consent of the majority of muslims, then when you retaliate they say any retaliation is an attack on all muslims.

It is the job of muslim leaders to clearly differentiate themselves and their followers from the extremists and send the message that these acts are not supported by all muslims. Afghanistan happened because the Taliban wouldn't hand over Bin Laden. In a situation like this you are either against the terrorists, or, by your inaction alone, for them.

By the way, I'm not ignorant of the reasons given by islamic terrorists for their actions, nor the injustices of US foreign policy. I just believe that the form of response is repugnant.

naishou

Yeah I think we all agree on that one.

Did you hear the leader of the Indonesian group thought responsible last night? He claimed that the USA is responsible for the bombings so they can use them as justification for attacking terrorists in Indonesia (he didn't use that word) He also denied he's a leader even though millions of people say he is their leader! It's not like we're fighting rational human beings here. There's a lot of disinformation about what it is they believe and their motives but even so they're a pretty freaky insane bunch.

MyBad

This article from The Guardian addresses that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/st...,812491,00.html


Osama bin Laden pinpointed Australians in Indonesia as a target in the wake of the September 11 attacks last year, but western intelligence services failed to take his pronouncement at face value. A statement by Bin Laden broadcast on the al-Jazeera satellite station on November 3 2001 specifically identified Australians as 'crusaders'.
During the 2001 broadcast, Bin Laden placed the Australian peacekeeping force that went into East Timor, then part of Indonesia, in 1999 in the context of other 'crusader' forces that had set foot on Muslim soil, such as US soldiers in the Middle East.

He said the west and the UN had moved to divide most populous Muslim country in the world as part of "a long series of conspiracies, a war of annihilation".

Bin Laden also identified the UN as an antagonist: "Who issued the partition resolution on Palestine in 1947 and surrendered the land of Muslims to the Jews? ...The United Nations is nothing but a tool of crime."

Yossef Bodansky, director of the US congressional task force on terrorism, says western intelligence has been struggling to contain terrorism since September 11. "We - western security services - have barely made a dent in their operations."

Mr Bodansky, who wrote the first biography of Bin Laden, believes the west misunderstands the al-Qaida leader's role - which he sees as largely inspirational rather than operational, which is why pronouncements like the one concerning Indonesia must be studied very carefully.

"Bin Laden and his key aides are of unique importance as far as the operatives' morale and theological inspiration are concerned," he said.

Iggy_Type_R

Another issue I'd like to raise is the _reactive_ nature of most governments.

eg. The new laws that have been passed in Indonesia. AFTER the bomb. Couldn't it have done some good BEFORE?

How about this tracking down Osama Bin Laden stuff... would it not have saved a few thousand lives if he was chased down and taken in (or out) BEFORE September 11th?

Is it that hard to find evidence on these people or something? I just don't get it.