And the best selling cvonvetible is...
12-02-2003, 04:29 PM
#11
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Let us look at classes in racing - open & club: could a Monaro or an XU1 enter an event as a sports car ??
I don't think so. They are touring cars or sports sedans, depending on the degree of modification.
On the official CAMS website http://www.cams.com.au they list the categories that currently exist in Australia. There seems to be no distinction between convertible & fixed roof cars at all. The Monaro is specifically mentioned in the Nations Cup, which in turn falls under the sports cars category. The Torana XU1 falls into the Historics - see below.
The categories are as follows:.............
Listed below are some of the national categories that are operated under the jurisdiction of the Confederation of Australian Motor Sport. For more information about any of these categories, please click the links below:
Circuit Racing
First Category - Racing Cars
+ Formula 4000
+ Formula 3
+ Formula Ford
Second Category - Sports Cars
+ Nations Cup
+ Carrera Cup
+ MG-F Trophy
Third Category - Production Cars
+ V8 Supercars
+ GTP
+ Konica V8 Supercar Series
+ V8 Brutes
+ Saloon Car Racing
Rallying
+ Australian Rally Championship
Off Road Racing
+ Australian Off Road Championship
We also need to consider the classical (old) definitions - see another post on this thread.
The Historic categories are also available via links from the CAMS website. The Historics seem mainly interested in categorising cars by date of manufacture. The Historic definition of a sports car seems to be that of a racing car with a wider chassis, wheels enclosed and a passenger seat added. Again (after a quick glance) I couldn't see any distinction between convertibles & fixed roof cars.
At the club level where most of us participate (EG PIARC MSCA etc) they don't distinguish between fixed or folding roofs. Cars are split into categories of standard, modified & racing and then split into classes based on cubic capacity (with allowance for FI). Some clubs isolate the clubman type cars into a category on their own. Standard Mazda MX5s and Astra convertibles are not allowed because they don't have built in rollover protection.
I must confess that I did get a bit of a shock when I saw those CAMS categories. They have obviously changed a lot over the years.
I don't think so. They are touring cars or sports sedans, depending on the degree of modification.
On the official CAMS website http://www.cams.com.au they list the categories that currently exist in Australia. There seems to be no distinction between convertible & fixed roof cars at all. The Monaro is specifically mentioned in the Nations Cup, which in turn falls under the sports cars category. The Torana XU1 falls into the Historics - see below.
The categories are as follows:.............
Listed below are some of the national categories that are operated under the jurisdiction of the Confederation of Australian Motor Sport. For more information about any of these categories, please click the links below:
Circuit Racing
First Category - Racing Cars
+ Formula 4000
+ Formula 3
+ Formula Ford
Second Category - Sports Cars
+ Nations Cup
+ Carrera Cup
+ MG-F Trophy
Third Category - Production Cars
+ V8 Supercars
+ GTP
+ Konica V8 Supercar Series
+ V8 Brutes
+ Saloon Car Racing
Rallying
+ Australian Rally Championship
Off Road Racing
+ Australian Off Road Championship
We also need to consider the classical (old) definitions - see another post on this thread.
The Historic categories are also available via links from the CAMS website. The Historics seem mainly interested in categorising cars by date of manufacture. The Historic definition of a sports car seems to be that of a racing car with a wider chassis, wheels enclosed and a passenger seat added. Again (after a quick glance) I couldn't see any distinction between convertibles & fixed roof cars.
At the club level where most of us participate (EG PIARC MSCA etc) they don't distinguish between fixed or folding roofs. Cars are split into categories of standard, modified & racing and then split into classes based on cubic capacity (with allowance for FI). Some clubs isolate the clubman type cars into a category on their own. Standard Mazda MX5s and Astra convertibles are not allowed because they don't have built in rollover protection.
I must confess that I did get a bit of a shock when I saw those CAMS categories. They have obviously changed a lot over the years.
12-03-2003, 01:02 AM
#12
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The motoring clubs have just announced their "ABC" awards. (Australia's Best Cars)
see http://www.nrma.com.au
probably also available on http://www.racv.com.au
They have sports cars < $57K and sports cars > $57K.
It's interesting to see what they define as a "sports car".
see http://www.nrma.com.au
probably also available on http://www.racv.com.au
They have sports cars < $57K and sports cars > $57K.
It's interesting to see what they define as a "sports car".
12-03-2003, 07:17 PM
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The monaro and Astra sales are......Surprisingly the Copen is 3rd! Go the 600cc Turbo charged engine!
Sports cars
1. Holden Astra Convertible -- 181
2. Holden Monaro -- 170
3. Daihatsu Copen -- 58
Sports cars
1. Holden Astra Convertible -- 181
2. Holden Monaro -- 170
3. Daihatsu Copen -- 58
12-05-2003, 05:59 PM
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Following the release of the ABC Awards I wrote (email) to both CAMS and NRMA/RACV to ask how they classify a "sports car". At this moment the ABC people haven't replied yet but I have pasted below an extract from what CAMS had to say on the subject.
"A sportscar is a relatively small, high performance two door, two seater primarily used for high speed recreational activities rather than commuting. If you are refering to why we run particular cars in various catagories in historic racing, it would be because precedents have been set in the day or period as per the 911 Porsche and Mustang. I trust your'e not trying to re-address the historic movement as it would be rather daunting and can't be changed as we are trying to emulate racing of the period.
The argument could go on and on but generally speaking a manufacturer applies to the motor sport body for classification of the car in question and they make a judgment. We in Australia generally follow decisions made by the FIA and the RAC. They may have a set of rules but I doubt it as cars have been reclassified after a time to fit them into a more suitable class as per the Iso Revolta and the Porsche. I don't know if the Monaro is a sports car but it is classified as a GT production car. And as for the historic movement, we do have a set of rules which state that the car must run as per the period. No decisions to be made. No argument!
"A sportscar is a relatively small, high performance two door, two seater primarily used for high speed recreational activities rather than commuting. If you are refering to why we run particular cars in various catagories in historic racing, it would be because precedents have been set in the day or period as per the 911 Porsche and Mustang. I trust your'e not trying to re-address the historic movement as it would be rather daunting and can't be changed as we are trying to emulate racing of the period.
The argument could go on and on but generally speaking a manufacturer applies to the motor sport body for classification of the car in question and they make a judgment. We in Australia generally follow decisions made by the FIA and the RAC. They may have a set of rules but I doubt it as cars have been reclassified after a time to fit them into a more suitable class as per the Iso Revolta and the Porsche. I don't know if the Monaro is a sports car but it is classified as a GT production car. And as for the historic movement, we do have a set of rules which state that the car must run as per the period. No decisions to be made. No argument!
12-07-2003, 10:35 PM
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I have now received a response from the NRMA/RACV in regard to their ABC awards and it is as follows.................
"You have raised the eternal question "what is a sports car"? Many people
have their own opinion (often depending on the type of car they own or
like) and will argue that the category should be very narrow. But as we
represent the wide cross section of members, ABC looks at the broad sports
car classification.
We do not believe that the number of seats or a convertible or coupe body
design has any relevance to a cars credentials as a sports car. Our
opinion is a sports car expands the performance envelope (acceleration
cornering and braking) over regular road cars. We also take into
consideration the target market for the vehicle. Like in many of the
classes there are a few vehicles that straddle the boundaries and the
judges have to make a decision, usually after lengthy discussion and
looking at as much data as possible."
"You have raised the eternal question "what is a sports car"? Many people
have their own opinion (often depending on the type of car they own or
like) and will argue that the category should be very narrow. But as we
represent the wide cross section of members, ABC looks at the broad sports
car classification.
We do not believe that the number of seats or a convertible or coupe body
design has any relevance to a cars credentials as a sports car. Our
opinion is a sports car expands the performance envelope (acceleration
cornering and braking) over regular road cars. We also take into
consideration the target market for the vehicle. Like in many of the
classes there are a few vehicles that straddle the boundaries and the
judges have to make a decision, usually after lengthy discussion and
looking at as much data as possible."
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