And the best selling cvonvetible is...
12-01-2003, 02:17 PM
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And the best selling cvonvetible is...
Recently I saw the sales of convertibles in Oz over the last month. It did not have all the cars listed, but the best selling convertible here is an Astra Convertible which moved around 240 units last month. That's a lot of cars, by any standards, not just convertibles. I can't belive how well they are selling as they are not that cheap (ie. $50k). To put it into perspective, they sold around 260 Euro Accords that month. I think they sell around 120 Intergas when they are having a good month.
The Z4 is selling well at the mement (ie. new car) and had around 76 sales for the month. To put that into perspective, that is roughly the number of Boxsters they sell each month and that is now a 6 year old model.
The Daihatsu Coppen (or whatever is the little hard-top covertible called) sold in around 40 units.
The S2000 was not listed, but considering that they were selling maybe 14 units per month a good year ago, I'd expect it to be less now (ie. more like 10). MR2-S sells in less than 20 units per month as well while the MX5 sells in around 50 cars per month.
The Z4 is selling well at the mement (ie. new car) and had around 76 sales for the month. To put that into perspective, that is roughly the number of Boxsters they sell each month and that is now a 6 year old model.
The Daihatsu Coppen (or whatever is the little hard-top covertible called) sold in around 40 units.
The S2000 was not listed, but considering that they were selling maybe 14 units per month a good year ago, I'd expect it to be less now (ie. more like 10). MR2-S sells in less than 20 units per month as well while the MX5 sells in around 50 cars per month.
12-01-2003, 03:42 PM
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The Monaro is still the best selling sports car I think. The astra convertible comes second. I actually signed my name on the dotted line to buy one but waited nearly 3 months for it when it came out.
I cancelled the order because it took too long, thankfully too because I got the S and never looked back. I really would have been dissapointed if I got it then because it the astra now comes out in Turbo. An increase in power but not anywhere near to the S.
I cancelled the order because it took too long, thankfully too because I got the S and never looked back. I really would have been dissapointed if I got it then because it the astra now comes out in Turbo. An increase in power but not anywhere near to the S.
12-01-2003, 05:03 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by tlephan
The Monaro is still the best selling sports car I think. The astra convertible comes second. I actually signed my name on the dotted line to buy one but waited nearly 3 months for it when it came out.
The Monaro is still the best selling sports car I think. The astra convertible comes second. I actually signed my name on the dotted line to buy one but waited nearly 3 months for it when it came out.
12-01-2003, 10:36 PM
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Are you saying all sports cars are convertibles?
So all those Ferraris (eg 575M) and Lamborghinis must be glorified taxis also.
Man I'd love to get picked up in one of those taxis and see the driver turn the metre on.
M@
So all those Ferraris (eg 575M) and Lamborghinis must be glorified taxis also.
Man I'd love to get picked up in one of those taxis and see the driver turn the metre on.
M@
12-01-2003, 10:50 PM
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This raises the question of what is a sports car. How do you define what is a "sports" car and what is not 
The ability to take the roof down does make a car a 'convertible' but that does not mean that it's automatically a "sports" car. Some cars that are obviously "sports" cars (EG Subaru WRX, Honda ITR & Mitsubishi EVO) cannot take their roofs down.
So, what rules could we envisage to isolate the true sports cars from the cruisy convertibles, luxury limousines & family falcadores? I'm throwing this question open to the forum members here to debate but I'll kick start the issue with an opening attempt at definition.
A true sports car is one whose handling is sufficiently good to enable it to be taken onto a race track where it can perform close to its maximum speed without the need for suspension or braking modifications.
A true sports car is one whose power to weight ratio is sufficiently better than the average family sedan in order to give it it a top speed that is 25% more than the said family sedan. And has the acceleration to get it there quickly.
A true sports car is one that combines better than average straight line performance AND better than average handling by a factor of XX?
A couple of years back (before the Monaro was released) we had a big debate (sometimes fiery) on this board about Holdens generally and it's possible that the question of whether or not the Monaro is a sports car may excite similar passions. Similarly, the Astra is definitely a convertible but whether it qualifies as a sports car or not is also debateable.
The ability to take the roof down does make a car a 'convertible' but that does not mean that it's automatically a "sports" car. Some cars that are obviously "sports" cars (EG Subaru WRX, Honda ITR & Mitsubishi EVO) cannot take their roofs down.
So, what rules could we envisage to isolate the true sports cars from the cruisy convertibles, luxury limousines & family falcadores? I'm throwing this question open to the forum members here to debate but I'll kick start the issue with an opening attempt at definition.
A true sports car is one whose handling is sufficiently good to enable it to be taken onto a race track where it can perform close to its maximum speed without the need for suspension or braking modifications.
A true sports car is one whose power to weight ratio is sufficiently better than the average family sedan in order to give it it a top speed that is 25% more than the said family sedan. And has the acceleration to get it there quickly.
A true sports car is one that combines better than average straight line performance AND better than average handling by a factor of XX?
A couple of years back (before the Monaro was released) we had a big debate (sometimes fiery) on this board about Holdens generally and it's possible that the question of whether or not the Monaro is a sports car may excite similar passions. Similarly, the Astra is definitely a convertible but whether it qualifies as a sports car or not is also debateable.
12-01-2003, 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by MattG
Are you saying all sports cars are convertibles?
So all those Ferraris (eg 575M) and Lamborghinis must be glorified taxis also.
Man I'd love to get picked up in one of those taxis and see the driver turn the metre on.
M@
Are you saying all sports cars are convertibles?
So all those Ferraris (eg 575M) and Lamborghinis must be glorified taxis also.
Man I'd love to get picked up in one of those taxis and see the driver turn the metre on.
M@
Classically, cars with a fold down roof (or no roof at all) were know as sports-racing cars - those like the Ferrari etc were known as sports cars. In todays terms, the term sports cars seem to mean something with a fold down roof, which means perhaps that the Ferraris etc could be regarded as sports coupes.
A Holden, not matter what shape or form, will always be a taxi !!! The Munro is not a purpose build & designed car - it is a modification of a very base model.
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12-01-2003, 11:37 PM
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I will generally prefer a hardtop version of a car because it is usually stiffer, lighter and harder to get "right" (have a look at a Jag XJS hardtop & droptop). Sometimes the conv stiffening helps (i.e. C4 Corvette X-frame) but ususally they just end up heavier, dirtier (drag) and floppier (dont we all 
) than the coupe.
Still love Clubmans, Cobras and topless CanAm cars even if they dont have a top. And what is an F1/Champ car other than a very fast soft top (remember the Brabham plexiglass experimental hard top?).
The Astra is cute and cheap which means that it is going to sell. Hopefully this will give a resurgance to the "Capri Phenomenom" of the 90's.
The Capri sold very well to females, especially females with their first car (P platers) who were interested in their looks. The result was that the driver of any P plated Capri was worth perving at in traffic (especially from a high truck on a sunny day).
) than the coupe.Still love Clubmans, Cobras and topless CanAm cars even if they dont have a top. And what is an F1/Champ car other than a very fast soft top (remember the Brabham plexiglass experimental hard top?).
The Astra is cute and cheap which means that it is going to sell. Hopefully this will give a resurgance to the "Capri Phenomenom" of the 90's.
The Capri sold very well to females, especially females with their first car (P platers) who were interested in their looks. The result was that the driver of any P plated Capri was worth perving at in traffic (especially from a high truck on a sunny day).
12-02-2003, 03:12 AM
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The Monaro is still the best selling sports car I think
Do you recall what the numbers were? I'm sure I've seen them but I did not think that they were selling 200+ Monaros in a month .... that would mean around 2500 sales per year. But looking at that number, that seems very feasable. I do know that only 3% were sold with the V6 though.
A true sports car is one whose handling is sufficiently good to enable it to be taken onto a race track where it can perform close to its maximum speed without the need for suspension or braking modifications.
That would exclude the S2000 as I had to change the brake-pads in order to be able to drive it on the track :-) Personaly, I don't think that this is necesarily a criteria for a 'sports car', but it is true that a better sports car will be more at home at the track than a lesser one.
A true sports car is one whose power to weight ratio is sufficiently better than the average family sedan in order to give it it a top speed that is 25% more than the said family sedan. And has the acceleration to get it there quickly.
This would exclude an MX5. And there is no way that anyone can say that it's not a sports car. And this 'rule' would include something like a Maybach, which is the furthest thing from a sports car possible.
In todays terms, the term sports cars seem to mean something with a fold down roof
I don't agree with that either. A 'true' sportscar will actually have a roof as the roof will give the car more speed and better handling. Those two criterias are more important than the roof-down factor. For instance a 911 (with a roof) is a lot more of a sports car than a 911 convertible. Also M3 is more of a sports car than M3 convertible. Is Lexus SC400 a sports-car? Is the Astra convertible a sports-car? I don't think either is. They are just convertibles.
Taking all this furhter? Is 2 seats a requirement .... not sure, but M3 has back seats ... then it's not as much a sports car as a 911, which in turn is not as much a sports car as an Elise or F360.
So, following that logic, a sports-car is a car that does not compromize performance/handling for the sake of practicality or comfort. The more driver-oriented the car is, the more of a sports-car it will be. To sum up, my definition would be asports car is a driver oriented car that does not comporomize performance/handling for the sake of comfort or practicality. The ultimate limits or acceleration/grip are not critical, but of course having more of either is always a benefit. Having the roof removable or not is not important, but if the convertible aspect compromizes the performance/handling then it's certainly less of a sports car.
By my definition, here is my order of 'selected' cars ordered in order of 'sportiness':
- GT3
- F360
- Elise
- S2000
- M3 CLS
- 911
- Boxster
- MX5
- M3
- 500SL
- M5
- XR6/SS Commodore
Do you recall what the numbers were? I'm sure I've seen them but I did not think that they were selling 200+ Monaros in a month .... that would mean around 2500 sales per year. But looking at that number, that seems very feasable. I do know that only 3% were sold with the V6 though.
A true sports car is one whose handling is sufficiently good to enable it to be taken onto a race track where it can perform close to its maximum speed without the need for suspension or braking modifications.
That would exclude the S2000 as I had to change the brake-pads in order to be able to drive it on the track :-) Personaly, I don't think that this is necesarily a criteria for a 'sports car', but it is true that a better sports car will be more at home at the track than a lesser one.
A true sports car is one whose power to weight ratio is sufficiently better than the average family sedan in order to give it it a top speed that is 25% more than the said family sedan. And has the acceleration to get it there quickly.
This would exclude an MX5. And there is no way that anyone can say that it's not a sports car. And this 'rule' would include something like a Maybach, which is the furthest thing from a sports car possible.
In todays terms, the term sports cars seem to mean something with a fold down roof
I don't agree with that either. A 'true' sportscar will actually have a roof as the roof will give the car more speed and better handling. Those two criterias are more important than the roof-down factor. For instance a 911 (with a roof) is a lot more of a sports car than a 911 convertible. Also M3 is more of a sports car than M3 convertible. Is Lexus SC400 a sports-car? Is the Astra convertible a sports-car? I don't think either is. They are just convertibles.
Taking all this furhter? Is 2 seats a requirement .... not sure, but M3 has back seats ... then it's not as much a sports car as a 911, which in turn is not as much a sports car as an Elise or F360.
So, following that logic, a sports-car is a car that does not compromize performance/handling for the sake of practicality or comfort. The more driver-oriented the car is, the more of a sports-car it will be. To sum up, my definition would be asports car is a driver oriented car that does not comporomize performance/handling for the sake of comfort or practicality. The ultimate limits or acceleration/grip are not critical, but of course having more of either is always a benefit. Having the roof removable or not is not important, but if the convertible aspect compromizes the performance/handling then it's certainly less of a sports car.
By my definition, here is my order of 'selected' cars ordered in order of 'sportiness':
- GT3
- F360
- Elise
- S2000
- M3 CLS
- 911
- Boxster
- MX5
- M3
- 500SL
- M5
- XR6/SS Commodore