PIR Course Elements
01-31-2008, 05:26 PM
#1
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PIR Course Elements
Two PIR turns are troublesome to get just right: Turn 2, and Turn 9.
In Turn 2, if I go out wide to make the decreasing apex late inside, the traction is crap, and if I try to go inside - like the Lotus does, I manage to exit too slow.
Turn 9 entry, I have braking and traction problems. The car feels like it does not grip during braking and tends to continue forward by a factor of 2 if I try to be right on the right white line then turn toward the 9 apex and exit out toward the NASCAR sign. My braking system is solid everywhere else. I think that the pavement before turn 9 undulates and makes it difficult for the tires to make solid contact. Perhaps move inside and late brake?
If I could just figure out those two turns for entry and exit, I think that would be supremely helpful.
Here's what I have so-far:
* Entry to turn 1 - 120mph tap and turn in smoothely.
* Gas over the transition to neutralize and brake in a straight line before entering 2.
* Speed but Neutral around 2 then head inside to hit the apex at 3 and accelerate.
* Accelerate through 4 and hit the outside apex, then turn toward 5's apex.
* Touch 5's apex then head inside with both tires over the concrete patch in 6 in 3rd gear and accelerate all the way out through and touch 7 and 8 apex.
* Head toward white line before 9, late brake, and head toward 9 apex.
* Touch 9 apex and aim for a spot just short of the NASCAR logo on the wall and keep the foot in it while looking down the wall.
* Enter NASCAR 3/4 at 95mph and immediately shift to 5th gear and keep on the throttle.
* Hold angle aimed at late apex and exit NASCAR 3/4 at 105.
Word?
In Turn 2, if I go out wide to make the decreasing apex late inside, the traction is crap, and if I try to go inside - like the Lotus does, I manage to exit too slow.
Turn 9 entry, I have braking and traction problems. The car feels like it does not grip during braking and tends to continue forward by a factor of 2 if I try to be right on the right white line then turn toward the 9 apex and exit out toward the NASCAR sign. My braking system is solid everywhere else. I think that the pavement before turn 9 undulates and makes it difficult for the tires to make solid contact. Perhaps move inside and late brake?
If I could just figure out those two turns for entry and exit, I think that would be supremely helpful.
Here's what I have so-far:
* Entry to turn 1 - 120mph tap and turn in smoothely.
* Gas over the transition to neutralize and brake in a straight line before entering 2.
* Speed but Neutral around 2 then head inside to hit the apex at 3 and accelerate.
* Accelerate through 4 and hit the outside apex, then turn toward 5's apex.
* Touch 5's apex then head inside with both tires over the concrete patch in 6 in 3rd gear and accelerate all the way out through and touch 7 and 8 apex.
* Head toward white line before 9, late brake, and head toward 9 apex.
* Touch 9 apex and aim for a spot just short of the NASCAR logo on the wall and keep the foot in it while looking down the wall.
* Enter NASCAR 3/4 at 95mph and immediately shift to 5th gear and keep on the throttle.
* Hold angle aimed at late apex and exit NASCAR 3/4 at 105.
Word?
01-31-2008, 06:00 PM
#2
haha.. I know Brady has some cad plotted ariel shots of those two corners.. 
Yes 2 and 9 are tricky but I seriously believe the men vs boys is an oval thing at PIR.
Single line around, hugging the bottom vs. using the whole track nearly hitting the wall nascar stylEzz.
ya dig?
Yes 2 and 9 are tricky but I seriously believe the men vs boys is an oval thing at PIR.
Single line around, hugging the bottom vs. using the whole track nearly hitting the wall nascar stylEzz.
ya dig?
01-31-2008, 06:12 PM
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Yeah... it's a ballz thing. My car "rumbled" around NASCAR 3/4 while at 100+ mph and it felt like it was telling me that was enough.
If I had my "druthers" I'd like to experiment on a more open track to experience the feeling the car expresses just at the edge.
Smack the wall in NASCAR 3/4 and it is game over for the S.
If I had my "druthers" I'd like to experiment on a more open track to experience the feeling the car expresses just at the edge.
Smack the wall in NASCAR 3/4 and it is game over for the S.
01-31-2008, 06:15 PM
#4
Yeah, so why bother? 
If you look at lap times from cars who can take the oval flat (because they're slow) like my Spec Miata.. my best ever lap was 1.15 something and the record is 1.12.6.. so, 3sec leads you to believe the infield can't be all that tricky.
If you look at lap times from cars who can take the oval flat (because they're slow) like my Spec Miata.. my best ever lap was 1.15 something and the record is 1.12.6.. so, 3sec leads you to believe the infield can't be all that tricky.
01-31-2008, 06:18 PM
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... explain...
I don't believe that the S can take 3/4 flat-out (on the accelerator) because of weight.
SPLNDID is running on 245s all around, yet it felt "slick", at moderate constant throttle... roughly 100mph around the peak of the curve.
I don't believe that the S can take 3/4 flat-out (on the accelerator) because of weight.
SPLNDID is running on 245s all around, yet it felt "slick", at moderate constant throttle... roughly 100mph around the peak of the curve.
01-31-2008, 06:22 PM
#6
Rookie vs lap record in cars where the oval doesn't matter = infield not so tricky.
And for the record, his (Bob Stetch's) miata was probably +15hp on my car so I'm sure he exited the oval faster let alone own3d me on the infield by 2-3secs!
And for the record, his (Bob Stetch's) miata was probably +15hp on my car so I'm sure he exited the oval faster let alone own3d me on the infield by 2-3secs!
01-31-2008, 06:25 PM
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... so are you saying to NOT push the NASCAR 3/4 much more and focus on the inside twisties? I could agree with that. I've got 5/6 down, it is turn 2 and 9 that cause issues I believe. Word?
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01-31-2008, 06:37 PM
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ok.
So the key for the S then would be traction!
Gain on the inside line while in the twisties and spank it on the open NASCAR 3/4.
I'm looking for wider tires for the next event. Will be running on the 17" rims that allow for wider tire sizes. Also am going to look at aerodynamics for downforce in front. Already have a decent wing on back.
Will be wearing Depends.
So the key for the S then would be traction!
Gain on the inside line while in the twisties and spank it on the open NASCAR 3/4.
I'm looking for wider tires for the next event. Will be running on the 17" rims that allow for wider tire sizes. Also am going to look at aerodynamics for downforce in front. Already have a decent wing on back.
Will be wearing Depends.
01-31-2008, 06:43 PM
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You know what I'd really like to know is "tire talk". We already know that when we hear squealing that the tires are rubbing across the pavement and losing traction. What I'd like to know is something more subtle.
I attempted to have my foot in it through NASCAR 3/4, but I found a zone where the car was rumbling... it felt as if the car were slightly skipping and telling me that it was the limit of my traction at that speed in that corner. It felt as if it broke away that it would be rather sudden and I'd smack the wall. Anyone have word on how it feels before the tires loose traction in a high speed rolling turn?
To be more precise, how SHOULD the traction "feel" at the limit of traction in a high speed turn like PIR's NASCAR 3/4? Ideally, would the tires squeal before losing it totally? The "rumbling" (say 6Hz) felt to me like it was getting ready to lose it. Word?
I attempted to have my foot in it through NASCAR 3/4, but I found a zone where the car was rumbling... it felt as if the car were slightly skipping and telling me that it was the limit of my traction at that speed in that corner. It felt as if it broke away that it would be rather sudden and I'd smack the wall. Anyone have word on how it feels before the tires loose traction in a high speed rolling turn?
To be more precise, how SHOULD the traction "feel" at the limit of traction in a high speed turn like PIR's NASCAR 3/4? Ideally, would the tires squeal before losing it totally? The "rumbling" (say 6Hz) felt to me like it was getting ready to lose it. Word?