adrs2k

^ Yea your car sounds good and def seems hooked up. You were able to real me in yesterday. I tried to pick the pace up a little but my VSA light was flashing around a lot of corners, must have been the brand new tires on the rear Figured if VSA is kicking in around a corner, I am pushing hard enough on public roads

Boofster

It's unfair to expect a stock car to behave as well as who knows how many mods the rest of the people in front of you have.
I worry many times that we as a group push others too hard. You need to find your comfort level and gradually build on that.
But no worries, most of us have gone through fail's in our pasts

Consider the following:

1. Stickier and/or wider tires
2. HPDE1 track days and/or Auto-Cross sessions
3. A later model with traction control or KPRO computer with traction control
4. Hang back at your own pace until more experience is gained
5. Drive along with someone else and pay attention to their behavior
6. Play more video games

gnk

I agree, don't knock yourself out about it. The things that make the S2000 turn quickly are the same things that make it want to spin given the right combination of driver and external inputs. Google snap oversteer S2000 and you might get some interesting video. There were so many people having issues that Honda made the AP2 a little bit more forgiving. I believe the suspension was changed, and the rear tires are fatter. Then, in 2006 they added VSA (stability control). I personally didn't see VSA flashing on any corners, but I did trigger it on this trip with a klutzy downshift. You may be able to make your car a bit more forgiving with fatter rear rubber and varying front vs. rear tire pressure. I don't know what happened to you exactly, so I don't know how likely it is that driver training and/or track/autocross experience would help - of course it would in a lot of situations. On a road like this, you have the unexpected that happens to you (like gravel across the road as you are making a blind, fast turn), and then the driver training may help you get out of it.

TomSolo

^^^ #6 on ivans list ftw

adrs2k

Going with what you said Ivan about pushing each other. Yes I do believe sometimes there is too much of that. One thing we didnt do on this trip, and we typically try to do it is that we line up according to pace. That way people that like and want to push are at the front of the line, and people that are just cruising are at the back of the line. It can be dangerous to mix and match the group because we get fast people in the middle of the pack, possibly pushing the slower driver in front. I got to a point where I tried to wave Bret by as I didnt want to push any harder to stay in front, but the road went back to 1 lane and there was traffic ahead.

I will make sure for future drives we discuss and make sure we line up according to comfort level and pace. One thing, if you are driving and the guy behind seems to be on your tail, wave him by or pull over. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to push harder if you are uncomfortable. No shame in letting someone past. Remember, we all do these drives for different reasons...

Boofster

^ While this seems logical, many of us (i.e. Brandon, me, etc.) tend to hang back because otherwise we would get ourselves in trouble. Sometimes I get carried away and forget that this is not my personal race track. This comes from the mindset of track days where you are "in the zone". Hardly a priority at all in the mountain. On drives, this needs to be dialed back and more time should be spent on smelling the roses. I could have passed everyone that waved me by and fallen off the hill. But what would be the point of that?

I'll just stick to letting the s2k reward me with that special feeling of driving it elegantly, even at lower speeds.

K20FA5

im sure the meaty 245s i have helped out a lot with that

adrs2k

Yea I usually put myself in the back as I know that I will get in the zone. I led this drive for awhile for the first time, and I took off at times and started pushing it. Then realized what I was doing and dialed it back a bit.

I agree with you about we all should dial it back and smell the roses. Problem is that once people hit the roads, that gets thrown out the window and people will drive fast at times. I am only saying we should try to make accommodations before hitting the canyons. I have seen just about every single one of us drive slowly in the back of the pack, or be in the front pack and pushing. Ivan last years Devil trip you were def in the front group with Roger and Dylan and you guys were leaving everyone in the dust. So knowing that when people get in the moment, it might be best to try to align ourselves accordingly. Remember, what you might consider a slow easy pace, might actually be fast/pushing it for a novice

Anyway, enough of this talk. We had a great trip, we all made it home safely, and I think we all got a little reminder about what can happen. Luckily its only a scuffed bumper!

AZS2KDancer

Great advice and discussion from this group. I will be a little more careful next time out. It could have been a lot worse. I think I let myself get ahead of my skill set and pushed too hard, but the AP1 S wasn't as forgiving as I had hoped. I think I got an expensive lesson out of this ride, and that I got away lucky. As I continue, I will be looking at driving classes and autocross as an option, and HPDE1. These were all on my want to do list this year, but I couldn't swing it financially. Once I finished my sound system upgrade, I'll be saving for some track time.

It sounds like it's best for me to stay in the back, but it would be nice to have some phone numbers in case I get left behind for what ever reason. I got Kerry's, Tom's, and Roger's yesterday, so if any of you would like to exchange phone numbers via PM, I'll be happy to share.

1slows2kCR

thasts what she said