have ScienceofSpeed Supercharger System, want air-air intercooler?
06-06-2014, 10:28 AM
#21
What kind of pumps do they use? I put 10000 miles on a Meziere WP136S and it was flawless. That thing was a beast. I wonder what kind of cores SOS uses, because my heatsoaking issue was directly related to not having a big enough front radiator for heat exchange. I couldn't find any thicker cores that could reject the heat fast enough. Usually a few pulls and the water took a bit to cool down, but the boost did come on fast.
The biggest upside to the AWIC setup that I ran was the incredibly short charge piping, even shorter than the CAIs kits that some s2000s have, which helped with the boost response. It'd be interesting to see overlays to show how much delay adding in the FMIC with all it's associated piping would add. The biggest downsize is the cores have a hard flow limit that you can't really get around, and it's also tied to how quality your core is. I have to wonder what SOS uses.
Lastly, marshman, it was mainly because I forgot how expensive boosting a S2000 was. I remember why I didn't now and why I wanted to do a LS swap.
The biggest upside to the AWIC setup that I ran was the incredibly short charge piping, even shorter than the CAIs kits that some s2000s have, which helped with the boost response. It'd be interesting to see overlays to show how much delay adding in the FMIC with all it's associated piping would add. The biggest downsize is the cores have a hard flow limit that you can't really get around, and it's also tied to how quality your core is. I have to wonder what SOS uses.
Lastly, marshman, it was mainly because I forgot how expensive boosting a S2000 was. I remember why I didn't now and why I wanted to do a LS swap.
06-06-2014, 10:30 AM
#22
Installation is free if you do it yourself and you should really do it yourself with the exception of perhaps the clutch. The s2000 engine bay is stupid easy to work in, much easier than the subies, but I see what you mean if you're working with a stock s2000;
full list;
Aeromotive FPR $150
ID 2000s for tons of room to grow $850, or you can get 1300s and sell them later when you decided you want more power
Walbro 460 $190
Get some -8 line, 25 feet of Earls, the good stuff $200
Fittings $250 at most, good stuff, earls
Scoopercharger kit $4800
Vipec I44 top board $1500, because you want a badass ecu you don't have to spend money on ever again. And 5d maps!
GM Flexfuel sensor, because you like to be able to fill up places $70
Canton Racing Catch can, because you need it $120
Rubber lines and whatnot for other junk $40
Good o2 sensor kit and gauge $250
Spec Stage 3+ clutch, $700, OSGiken/RPS Single carbon clutch $1700
Clutch delay valve delete $free, do it.
SS Clutch line replacement $30 if you do it yourself, $70 if you order it
Exhaust $700
Berk Header $550
Tuning from UMS $600
$11-12k depending on clutch. Could push the setup as far as you felt like minus the block. I'd rather go LS swap honestly. The above parts are overkill and with the expectation that you'll realize that a supercharger isn't the way to go and will want more power. Obviously you could save costs across the board with ecu, injectors, catch cans, etc.
full list;
Aeromotive FPR $150
ID 2000s for tons of room to grow $850, or you can get 1300s and sell them later when you decided you want more power
Walbro 460 $190
Get some -8 line, 25 feet of Earls, the good stuff $200
Fittings $250 at most, good stuff, earls
Scoopercharger kit $4800
Vipec I44 top board $1500, because you want a badass ecu you don't have to spend money on ever again. And 5d maps!
GM Flexfuel sensor, because you like to be able to fill up places $70
Canton Racing Catch can, because you need it $120
Rubber lines and whatnot for other junk $40
Good o2 sensor kit and gauge $250
Spec Stage 3+ clutch, $700, OSGiken/RPS Single carbon clutch $1700
Clutch delay valve delete $free, do it.
SS Clutch line replacement $30 if you do it yourself, $70 if you order it
Exhaust $700
Berk Header $550
Tuning from UMS $600
$11-12k depending on clutch. Could push the setup as far as you felt like minus the block. I'd rather go LS swap honestly. The above parts are overkill and with the expectation that you'll realize that a supercharger isn't the way to go and will want more power. Obviously you could save costs across the board with ecu, injectors, catch cans, etc.
ID1000 would be plenty for a typical application and can be found for 500 used
Also Walbro 255 would be fine
Aem ems v1 seems to work best on ap1 and can be had for 700 in the marketplace
Gm flex fuel sensor would only be necessary if the user were inclined to use e85
The canton catch can could be found less both new or used
SOS clutch $700 with new pilot and release bearings will hold 400whp fine
Stock exhaust is also fine for sc applications
Stock header is also fine
These are of course just preference but my point is that this is sc, not turbo. 11k isn't necessary. Like Feezy said, 8k is more what I would expect to pay for this setup plus selling the water setup. Should net out the door price under 8.
After all, this is SC we're talking about. While, if all Steven622's suggestions are used, you can max out the sc for the most power but it would be more feasible to turbo at that price point and make much more power.
Not to mention, picking up a second-hand low miles SOS sc kit can also save another $1300, conservatively.
06-06-2014, 11:13 AM
#23
That estimate does seem pretty spot on... IIRC
CTSC w/ AC $5,500 NIB
SoS Heat Exchanger $450
ACT PP + OEM plate + TOB = $650
KPRO + Parts and Tune $2500
Injectors $450
Misc fuel components + Pump $400
02 Gague $350
Install, misc labor etc ~$3,000 (sc install, clutch install, management install etc...)
Many other things I cant think of atm $$$$$
Ya, shit adds up FAST
CTSC w/ AC $5,500 NIB
SoS Heat Exchanger $450
ACT PP + OEM plate + TOB = $650
KPRO + Parts and Tune $2500
Injectors $450
Misc fuel components + Pump $400
02 Gague $350
Install, misc labor etc ~$3,000 (sc install, clutch install, management install etc...)
Many other things I cant think of atm $$$$$
Ya, shit adds up FAST
06-06-2014, 11:15 AM
#24
Originally Posted by Chitoki' timestamp='1402068462' post='23192701
[quote name='marshman' timestamp='1402038407' post='23192252']
I read on the boost forum that it notably drops IATs but there is a drop in psi, generally about 2 pounds. I was interested in this because I was looking into a second hand beta sc with a novi 1200. Would have been fine as-is but I daily my car in 100+ temps sometimes and heat soak is an issue.
I read on the boost forum that it notably drops IATs but there is a drop in psi, generally about 2 pounds. I was interested in this because I was looking into a second hand beta sc with a novi 1200. Would have been fine as-is but I daily my car in 100+ temps sometimes and heat soak is an issue.
[/quote]
I had the same problem and have since went with a Bosch Cobra pump and it has been much better.
06-06-2014, 11:45 AM
#25
Moderator
Originally Posted by Steven622' timestamp='1401993516' post='23191443
Installation is free if you do it yourself and you should really do it yourself with the exception of perhaps the clutch. The s2000 engine bay is stupid easy to work in, much easier than the subies, but I see what you mean if you're working with a stock s2000;
full list;
Aeromotive FPR $150
ID 2000s for tons of room to grow $850, or you can get 1300s and sell them later when you decided you want more power
Walbro 460 $190
Get some -8 line, 25 feet of Earls, the good stuff $200
Fittings $250 at most, good stuff, earls
Scoopercharger kit $4800
Vipec I44 top board $1500, because you want a badass ecu you don't have to spend money on ever again. And 5d maps!
GM Flexfuel sensor, because you like to be able to fill up places $70
Canton Racing Catch can, because you need it $120
Rubber lines and whatnot for other junk $40
Good o2 sensor kit and gauge $250
Spec Stage 3+ clutch, $700, OSGiken/RPS Single carbon clutch $1700
Clutch delay valve delete $free, do it.
SS Clutch line replacement $30 if you do it yourself, $70 if you order it
Exhaust $700
Berk Header $550
Tuning from UMS $600
$11-12k depending on clutch. Could push the setup as far as you felt like minus the block. I'd rather go LS swap honestly. The above parts are overkill and with the expectation that you'll realize that a supercharger isn't the way to go and will want more power. Obviously you could save costs across the board with ecu, injectors, catch cans, etc.
full list;
Aeromotive FPR $150
ID 2000s for tons of room to grow $850, or you can get 1300s and sell them later when you decided you want more power
Walbro 460 $190
Get some -8 line, 25 feet of Earls, the good stuff $200
Fittings $250 at most, good stuff, earls
Scoopercharger kit $4800
Vipec I44 top board $1500, because you want a badass ecu you don't have to spend money on ever again. And 5d maps!
GM Flexfuel sensor, because you like to be able to fill up places $70
Canton Racing Catch can, because you need it $120
Rubber lines and whatnot for other junk $40
Good o2 sensor kit and gauge $250
Spec Stage 3+ clutch, $700, OSGiken/RPS Single carbon clutch $1700
Clutch delay valve delete $free, do it.
SS Clutch line replacement $30 if you do it yourself, $70 if you order it
Exhaust $700
Berk Header $550
Tuning from UMS $600
$11-12k depending on clutch. Could push the setup as far as you felt like minus the block. I'd rather go LS swap honestly. The above parts are overkill and with the expectation that you'll realize that a supercharger isn't the way to go and will want more power. Obviously you could save costs across the board with ecu, injectors, catch cans, etc.
ID1000 would be plenty for a typical application and can be found for 500 used
Also Walbro 255 would be fine
Aem ems v1 seems to work best on ap1 and can be had for 700 in the marketplace
Gm flex fuel sensor would only be necessary if the user were inclined to use e85
The canton catch can could be found less both new or used
SOS clutch $700 with new pilot and release bearings will hold 400whp fine
Stock exhaust is also fine for sc applications
Stock header is also fine
These are of course just preference but my point is that this is sc, not turbo. 11k isn't necessary. Like Feezy said, 8k is more what I would expect to pay for this setup plus selling the water setup. Should net out the door price under 8.
After all, this is SC we're talking about. While, if all Steven622's suggestions are used, you can max out the sc for the most power but it would be more feasible to turbo at that price point and make much more power.
Not to mention, picking up a second-hand low miles SOS sc kit can also save another $1300, conservatively.
I don't know where you got the idea that the AEM V1 is ideal for AP1's because it's not. Cost aside the AEM V2 is going to give you more and better options for tuning, and unlike the V1 all of your dash gauges work with it. That last point more than makes up for any possible price difference.
I'm not even responding to Stevens post because some of that shit is major overkill for what the average supercharger user is after.
06-06-2014, 11:48 AM
#26
Originally Posted by Steven622' timestamp='1401993516' post='23191443
Installation is free if you do it yourself and you should really do it yourself with the exception of perhaps the clutch. The s2000 engine bay is stupid easy to work in, much easier than the subies, but I see what you mean if you're working with a stock s2000;
full list;
Aeromotive FPR $150
ID 2000s for tons of room to grow $850, or you can get 1300s and sell them later when you decided you want more power
Walbro 460 $190
Get some -8 line, 25 feet of Earls, the good stuff $200
Fittings $250 at most, good stuff, earls
Scoopercharger kit $4800
Vipec I44 top board $1500, because you want a badass ecu you don't have to spend money on ever again. And 5d maps!
GM Flexfuel sensor, because you like to be able to fill up places $70
Canton Racing Catch can, because you need it $120
Rubber lines and whatnot for other junk $40
Good o2 sensor kit and gauge $250
Spec Stage 3+ clutch, $700, OSGiken/RPS Single carbon clutch $1700
Clutch delay valve delete $free, do it.
SS Clutch line replacement $30 if you do it yourself, $70 if you order it
Exhaust $700
Berk Header $550
Tuning from UMS $600
$11-12k depending on clutch. Could push the setup as far as you felt like minus the block. I'd rather go LS swap honestly. The above parts are overkill and with the expectation that you'll realize that a supercharger isn't the way to go and will want more power. Obviously you could save costs across the board with ecu, injectors, catch cans, etc.
full list;
Aeromotive FPR $150
ID 2000s for tons of room to grow $850, or you can get 1300s and sell them later when you decided you want more power
Walbro 460 $190
Get some -8 line, 25 feet of Earls, the good stuff $200
Fittings $250 at most, good stuff, earls
Scoopercharger kit $4800
Vipec I44 top board $1500, because you want a badass ecu you don't have to spend money on ever again. And 5d maps!
GM Flexfuel sensor, because you like to be able to fill up places $70
Canton Racing Catch can, because you need it $120
Rubber lines and whatnot for other junk $40
Good o2 sensor kit and gauge $250
Spec Stage 3+ clutch, $700, OSGiken/RPS Single carbon clutch $1700
Clutch delay valve delete $free, do it.
SS Clutch line replacement $30 if you do it yourself, $70 if you order it
Exhaust $700
Berk Header $550
Tuning from UMS $600
$11-12k depending on clutch. Could push the setup as far as you felt like minus the block. I'd rather go LS swap honestly. The above parts are overkill and with the expectation that you'll realize that a supercharger isn't the way to go and will want more power. Obviously you could save costs across the board with ecu, injectors, catch cans, etc.
ID1000 would be plenty for a typical application and can be found for 500 used
Also Walbro 255 would be fine
Aem ems v1 seems to work best on ap1 and can be had for 700 in the marketplace
Gm flex fuel sensor would only be necessary if the user were inclined to use e85
The canton catch can could be found less both new or used
SOS clutch $700 with new pilot and release bearings will hold 400whp fine
Stock exhaust is also fine for sc applications
Stock header is also fine
These are of course just preference but my point is that this is sc, not turbo. 11k isn't necessary. Like Feezy said, 8k is more what I would expect to pay for this setup plus selling the water setup. Should net out the door price under 8.
After all, this is SC we're talking about. While, if all Steven622's suggestions are used, you can max out the sc for the most power but it would be more feasible to turbo at that price point and make much more power.
Not to mention, picking up a second-hand low miles SOS sc kit can also save another $1300, conservatively.
The AEM v1 is crap compared to Kpro, vipec or the infinity and doesn't have anywhere near the tuning capability due to low bandwidth datalogging or all the nice aux inputs. You know what helps cars not blow up especially if you're planning on boosting a high strung 11.5:1 engine? Good data logging.
Next, get 1300s or 2000s. Race gas or e85. Don't waste time getting smaller injectors that you might have to replace when you want more power down the line. Buy stuff once. Additionally, whoever adds boost to a 11.5:1 engine without adding race gas or e85 and expects it to last is an idiot. Having flex fuel capability is also awesome, because you can drive your car places and not have to worry about fuel. Additionally, the 460 is a FAR better pump than the 255 simply on design. Nevermind it flows more and is a hair more expensive, but why should you have to swap pumps twice? Do it right the first time.
To your canton catch can point, seriously? Yeah, it might be $20 cheaper. That really affects the bottom line.
SOS clutch would work, I'd do a nice carbon one if its in the budget, but that's just me. Carbon clutches feel like stock. I've done the whole billion pound clutch, it makes the car less fun to drive.
To your exhaust point, what kind of idiot spends all this time, money and effort to make more power and keeps the stock exhaust when it adds a good amount of power when talking about FI? If you buy this stuff used you could seriously be under $900 and add a ton of power. Additonally, if someone does run the stock exhaust when they get this setup tuned, then decides to get an exhaust down the line, guess what, they have to pay to have the tune touched up to add more power.
Here's the main points to take away from this;
Do stuff once
Pay for stuff once
Don't be a cheapass on the stuff that matters.
Don't be an idiot and run a high compression engine on shitty 91 octane.
Used parts save you money, big suprise!
Boost is expensive
S2000s are sweet
06-06-2014, 11:50 AM
#27
Moderator
Here's the main points to take away from this;
Do stuff once
Pay for stuff once
Don't be a cheapass on the stuff that matters.
Don't be an idiot and run a high compression engine on shitty 91 octane.
Used parts save you money, big suprise!
Boost is expensive
S2000s are sweet
Do stuff once
Pay for stuff once
Don't be a cheapass on the stuff that matters.
Don't be an idiot and run a high compression engine on shitty 91 octane.
Used parts save you money, big suprise!
Boost is expensive
S2000s are sweet
06-06-2014, 12:20 PM
#28
Moderator
The first three points. Breath of fresh air to hear someone else say that!! I was getting sick of the what is the cheapest part I can buy threads!!!
06-06-2014, 12:49 PM
#29
Not everyone wants 650hp in an s2000 and if they do, they typically turbo right off the bat.
For lower power goals (350-400), not everything you said is necessary.
And many of my more expensive parts were acquired used. Does that make them any less capable? Doubt it.
As long as quality, fully functional parts are used, I don't see anything wrong with used. Every penny counts these days. Not condoning "cheaping out." I'm simply stating that someone can easily be just as happy with their build without spending an additional $3000.
For lower power goals (350-400), not everything you said is necessary.
And many of my more expensive parts were acquired used. Does that make them any less capable? Doubt it.
As long as quality, fully functional parts are used, I don't see anything wrong with used. Every penny counts these days. Not condoning "cheaping out." I'm simply stating that someone can easily be just as happy with their build without spending an additional $3000.
06-06-2014, 12:58 PM
#30
There are valid points in both cases. I think the difference here is what you want out of the car. For me, I want to bolt on 350 WHP and call it a day. I won't be chasing bigger numbers and I want a car that I can drive, not always in the shop being worked on. Either way it won't be cheap but it can be done for less than 11k, especially if there is free labor involved. Back on topic, I'm really curious to see the results of this.