Enkei PF01 SS Wheels
02-25-2013 | 10:51 AM
#11
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Joined: Apr 2010
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I think the most cost effective thing is to buy a 17x9 all around, in a 55+ if you dont want fender mods (flaring and pulling). The benefit of going with a 17x9 all around from day one is you have room to grow, whereas buying a 17x8 does not allow you to grow as much. What I mean by the term grow is your setup can evolve and your performance ceiling is higher. I would also not buy other wheels that are stock sizes because at that point you just spend over a grand to run the same tire size and it offers no performance benefit. The wheels may however be slightly lighter, and then you are not using your minty stock wheels for track abuse...but in my opinion, if I am spending money on wheels, I only want to do it once and have the wheels that offer the most growth and variety in setup.
Stock wheels fit a 215 and a 225 -> 225 is the optimal size
17X8 fits a 225/235/245 -> 235 is the optimal size
17X9 fits a 225/235/245/255 -> 255 is the optimal size
Out of those sizes the 255 will be the biggest performance increase, but the way I am viewing it is you can start with a 235 or 245 and match your tire size to your driving ability. AS your driving ability increases you can increase your tire size. The 17X9 offers more range in tire sizes, and the highest level of performance (255). So instead of jumping right into the non-staggered arena you can buy the 17x9 wheels and learn to drive the car with say a 235 front tire or 245 front and a 255 rear. When your comfortable you can move to a 255 front and 255 rear.
I have asked a local if I could fit their 17x9+60 on my car to test the fitment , just need to get around to actually doing it. That said though, I will trim my fender liner and flatten the tabs on my front fenders as a precaution. It can cause a lot more damage if I dont do that and catch an edge while driving and that will surely ruin my fenders so better to do some minor modifications to protect the fenders.
Might be worth mentioning that from my point of view wheels are more than just for looks. Nothing wrong with buying wheels for just looks and getting them in whatever size fits and they come in, but I personally want a wheel that does it all.
Stock wheels fit a 215 and a 225 -> 225 is the optimal size
17X8 fits a 225/235/245 -> 235 is the optimal size
17X9 fits a 225/235/245/255 -> 255 is the optimal size
Out of those sizes the 255 will be the biggest performance increase, but the way I am viewing it is you can start with a 235 or 245 and match your tire size to your driving ability. AS your driving ability increases you can increase your tire size. The 17X9 offers more range in tire sizes, and the highest level of performance (255). So instead of jumping right into the non-staggered arena you can buy the 17x9 wheels and learn to drive the car with say a 235 front tire or 245 front and a 255 rear. When your comfortable you can move to a 255 front and 255 rear.
I have asked a local if I could fit their 17x9+60 on my car to test the fitment , just need to get around to actually doing it. That said though, I will trim my fender liner and flatten the tabs on my front fenders as a precaution. It can cause a lot more damage if I dont do that and catch an edge while driving and that will surely ruin my fenders so better to do some minor modifications to protect the fenders.
Might be worth mentioning that from my point of view wheels are more than just for looks. Nothing wrong with buying wheels for just looks and getting them in whatever size fits and they come in, but I personally want a wheel that does it all.
02-25-2013 | 10:54 AM
#12
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Ah ok, you're looking for cheap track beaters.
You can find set of used Volks with the 7.5 / 9 with 'OEM' offset for under $1,500. I've seen them go from anywhere between $900 - $1,500.
As far as condition, who cares if they are a little beat up. You're using them for beater track wheels, as long as they are straight that's all that matters.
You can find set of used Volks with the 7.5 / 9 with 'OEM' offset for under $1,500. I've seen them go from anywhere between $900 - $1,500.
As far as condition, who cares if they are a little beat up. You're using them for beater track wheels, as long as they are straight that's all that matters.
02-25-2013 | 11:00 AM
#13
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,216
Likes: 5
From: .
This is a pretty good price for non staggered Volks that aren't too far away from us:
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/100...0-garage-sale/
I think he means 17x9 +63, not 65, but I could be wrong.
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/100...0-garage-sale/
I think he means 17x9 +63, not 65, but I could be wrong.
02-25-2013 | 11:02 AM
#14
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,019
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From: Arizona
Originally Posted by Feezy' timestamp='1361816181' post='22362044
Ah ok, you're looking for cheap track beaters.
You can find set of used Volks with the 7.5 / 9 with 'OEM' offset for under $1,500. I've seen them go from anywhere between $900 - $1,500.
As far as condition, who cares if they are a little beat up. You're using them for beater track wheels, as long as they are straight that's all that matters.
You can find set of used Volks with the 7.5 / 9 with 'OEM' offset for under $1,500. I've seen them go from anywhere between $900 - $1,500.
As far as condition, who cares if they are a little beat up. You're using them for beater track wheels, as long as they are straight that's all that matters.
My set up is far to aggressive and really non-performance oriented. You're going to want something less aggressive that what I am running, well if you have no interest in modifying your fenders.
My set up is as follows:
Front: 17x8.5 +37/38 - 215/45
Rear: 17x9.5 +37/38 - 245/40
You can fit way more tire on my wheels, but I'm still running OEM Ap2 tire size. I am currently in the process of changing my set up, so with any luck it will be slightly more performance oriented when I am all done.
02-25-2013 | 11:20 AM
#15
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Philly Burbs
For clarities sake, were talking about recreational tracking Sandeep's CR in a non-structured (competitive with rules book and point allotments) environment, right?
With that being said, it also sounds like you're trying to avoid modifying your fenders in order to fit a larger size front and/or rear tire set up. Why is that? You're not under a point restriction, and honestly with modified front fenders you can fit a larger wheel and tire set up much easier. Are you concerned about resale value? That doesn't seem like a reason not to modify the front fenders, I mean realistically if the car sees track time, potentially you can have dings and scrapes or even a (god forbid) total write off someday.
The link that Bernie posted mentioned:
"The dude here says he didn't roll his fronts but it's highly recommend to bend the top two tabs up a little bit and trim your liner so it doesn't damage your fenders and or rip your liner out on accident."
That has the same effect as rolling your fenders, no? If someone is looking to buy a car, and wants it OEM and pristine the fact that those two tabs were modified is going to be the same as if they were rolled and trimmed.
It sounds like you need to make a decision in regards to your goals with the car. If you want to turn it into a full blown track car go for it, but you can't do that with the intention of retaining a high resale value.
Have you ever thought about selling your CR and picking up a late AP1 or early AP2, or any AP2 for that matter? You could add back most everything you want from the CR and not be worried about modifying or ruining the value on a limited production car. This is all under the assumption that you care about the two things that I mentioned. I could be way off base, but it seems to me if you're building an S2000 into a non-staggered track machine it makes more sense to start with a non-CR and build it exactly how you want.
I'm under the impression that CR's are designed very well as the package offering, and as a result are very competitive in environments where it is prohibitive or penalizing to make major changes to the car.
I think once you make a decision on the direction you really want to take the car the rest will fall into place. You can then decide if a more aggressively sized wheel and tire is acceptable. You can even give us a budget, requirements, and a range of sizes of wheels you find acceptable and I'm some of us can help you track something down.
With that being said, it also sounds like you're trying to avoid modifying your fenders in order to fit a larger size front and/or rear tire set up. Why is that? You're not under a point restriction, and honestly with modified front fenders you can fit a larger wheel and tire set up much easier. Are you concerned about resale value? That doesn't seem like a reason not to modify the front fenders, I mean realistically if the car sees track time, potentially you can have dings and scrapes or even a (god forbid) total write off someday.
The link that Bernie posted mentioned:
"The dude here says he didn't roll his fronts but it's highly recommend to bend the top two tabs up a little bit and trim your liner so it doesn't damage your fenders and or rip your liner out on accident."
That has the same effect as rolling your fenders, no? If someone is looking to buy a car, and wants it OEM and pristine the fact that those two tabs were modified is going to be the same as if they were rolled and trimmed.
It sounds like you need to make a decision in regards to your goals with the car. If you want to turn it into a full blown track car go for it, but you can't do that with the intention of retaining a high resale value.
Have you ever thought about selling your CR and picking up a late AP1 or early AP2, or any AP2 for that matter? You could add back most everything you want from the CR and not be worried about modifying or ruining the value on a limited production car. This is all under the assumption that you care about the two things that I mentioned. I could be way off base, but it seems to me if you're building an S2000 into a non-staggered track machine it makes more sense to start with a non-CR and build it exactly how you want.
I'm under the impression that CR's are designed very well as the package offering, and as a result are very competitive in environments where it is prohibitive or penalizing to make major changes to the car.
I think once you make a decision on the direction you really want to take the car the rest will fall into place. You can then decide if a more aggressively sized wheel and tire is acceptable. You can even give us a budget, requirements, and a range of sizes of wheels you find acceptable and I'm some of us can help you track something down.
I dont think bending the tabs back and triming the fender liners are the same as fully rolling and pulling fenders. Yes I agree the car is no longer pristine and unmolested, but rolling/flaring is a whole different level. Trimmed and bent tabs look no different then a stock fender, while a rolled/pulled fender does. Obviously everyone probably has a different opinion on that though.
I think you are taking this all a bit too far, and going to an extreme case. Nobody is recommending or suggesting a full blown track car, but increasing the performance of the S2000 in general. The car is capable of a lot more tire and wheel then what it comes with from the factory, so why not capitalize on that and maximize the platforms capabilities. A bone stock CR with non staggered wheels is capable of being a couple seconds faster around the track. Why not go that route and maximize the cars potential? Track days are a ton of fun, but you get to a point where your driving ability is limited by your cars performance. I am not saying I am some amazing driver, but the last track event out I became limited in what I could do with the car because of the lack of front tire and camber. So I skipped my last session out because at that point I was just pounding around the track not getting any faster. Of course I could have gone out and gained experience and I still have tons to learn, but it wasnt that much fun anymore. I go to track days to not only get better, but to see how fast I can push the car. Therefore I suggest others look long term when planning their build and buying parts that allow them to grow. How frequently do we see people buy parts, then sell them to go another route? Its all the time and most of the time its because people dont do it right the first time.
AS you are saying though, a clear goal should be defined. IF going as fast as possible and having a car that always exceeds your personal limits is what you desire then non staggered is best. If getting out to a couple track days a year, learning, cruising around, having fun are your goals, then perhaps just getting some OEM sized wheels for track use would be best.
Its worth noting that yes the CR was designed for a few spec racing classes in autocross and in SCCA club racing. Even going to tire rack in the drop down menu's you can select the CR trim level for those classes and guess what comes up, non staggered wheels and tires. The CR was built to handle non staggered in stock suspension form.
Another way to put it. If you are going to get fake boobs, would you go from an A cup to a full B just to test it out, and then down the road go to a full D? No, you go for the biggest and most performance right away!!! In the end your going to want more so just do it from day one!
02-25-2013 | 11:44 AM
#16
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,216
Likes: 5
From: .
Originally Posted by s2k4life_az' timestamp='1361822083' post='22362367
[quote name='Feezy' timestamp='1361816181' post='22362044']
Ah ok, you're looking for cheap track beaters.
You can find set of used Volks with the 7.5 / 9 with 'OEM' offset for under $1,500. I've seen them go from anywhere between $900 - $1,500.
As far as condition, who cares if they are a little beat up. You're using them for beater track wheels, as long as they are straight that's all that matters.
Ah ok, you're looking for cheap track beaters.
You can find set of used Volks with the 7.5 / 9 with 'OEM' offset for under $1,500. I've seen them go from anywhere between $900 - $1,500.
As far as condition, who cares if they are a little beat up. You're using them for beater track wheels, as long as they are straight that's all that matters.
[/quote]
Appearance is still an issue, even to track guys. Even though it might not be high on the priority list, knowing your car isn't ugly does add confidence.
02-25-2013 | 11:55 AM
#17
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 9,570
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From: Philly Burbs
Haha yea. I dont believe in having a track rat. Some people think its a track car so who cares and there cars are ugly and beat up. To each their own though! I am probably a long way off from buying wheels because there is not a single wheel on the market that checks all the boxes for me. Looks are still important to me.
I am not trying to compare a HPDE track car to a pro level sponsored race car, but top level race cars get their cockpits and trunks vacumed after each session, wheels cleaned after each session, windowns cleaned after each session, dashes dusted after each session, body wiped down and quick detailed after each session. These top tier cars get all chips and scratches filled between races as well. I remember having spare time at the track once so my boss told me to pull the spare front bumper out of the trailer and get out the touch up paint and touch up every single chip. I think that kept me busy for 4 hrs lol.
So yea, appearance is still important
I am not trying to compare a HPDE track car to a pro level sponsored race car, but top level race cars get their cockpits and trunks vacumed after each session, wheels cleaned after each session, windowns cleaned after each session, dashes dusted after each session, body wiped down and quick detailed after each session. These top tier cars get all chips and scratches filled between races as well. I remember having spare time at the track once so my boss told me to pull the spare front bumper out of the trailer and get out the touch up paint and touch up every single chip. I think that kept me busy for 4 hrs lol.
So yea, appearance is still important
02-25-2013 | 01:43 PM
#18
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,577
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Well said everyone. I agree that the wheels can't be ugly. I also struggle with wheel choices because of cost, appearance, fitment, etc.
So far I like getting on the track and I plan to do that several times during the year. If I was to get into competitive racing all year round, I would buy another S or ITR and build it to race specs without any compromises including great form and functioning wheels. It's too early to tell if I enjoy racing to the point to where I'm willing to spend more money and time than I already do. After all it can come down to dollars and cents if you're not sponsored.
In the meantime I enjoy a few track days, our drives, and admiring turbo and custom detail S2K's like Nick's S or Feezy's S. I appreciate Richard's, Simi's, and Adam's experience with racing. I like the fact that Adam has done the leg work around CR mods already so it's easy for me to follow his lead or adapt any of my CR changes.
I don't want to cut into fenders or change the look of the CR too drastically aside from a drop or wheels. If I had another one, I would probably spec it out as a full race car with a wide body stance and wheels to match.
My end goal really would be to maximize the NA and OEM quality of the CR with a few simple performance improvement mods and then purchase another S to really mod like others. Realistically about 3 years away from that unless some other car catches my eye.
So far I like getting on the track and I plan to do that several times during the year. If I was to get into competitive racing all year round, I would buy another S or ITR and build it to race specs without any compromises including great form and functioning wheels. It's too early to tell if I enjoy racing to the point to where I'm willing to spend more money and time than I already do. After all it can come down to dollars and cents if you're not sponsored.
In the meantime I enjoy a few track days, our drives, and admiring turbo and custom detail S2K's like Nick's S or Feezy's S. I appreciate Richard's, Simi's, and Adam's experience with racing. I like the fact that Adam has done the leg work around CR mods already so it's easy for me to follow his lead or adapt any of my CR changes.
I don't want to cut into fenders or change the look of the CR too drastically aside from a drop or wheels. If I had another one, I would probably spec it out as a full race car with a wide body stance and wheels to match.
My end goal really would be to maximize the NA and OEM quality of the CR with a few simple performance improvement mods and then purchase another S to really mod like others. Realistically about 3 years away from that unless some other car catches my eye.
02-25-2013 | 04:59 PM
#20
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,577
Likes: 44
Not digging that style of Volks. . I prefer the Mugen GP Gunmetal wheels in that style better. I like the CE28 wheel the best in Volks.
I know they might be played out a bit but looks and fitment offered are a good match for the CR.
My favorites for the CR would be:
1. Mugen GP gunmetal
2. Volks CE28 black
3. Mugen MF10 bronze
4. Advan RZ black
I also still like the Enkei NT03 and the ones were talking about.
I know they might be played out a bit but looks and fitment offered are a good match for the CR.
My favorites for the CR would be:
1. Mugen GP gunmetal
2. Volks CE28 black
3. Mugen MF10 bronze
4. Advan RZ black
I also still like the Enkei NT03 and the ones were talking about.